Nyx87's Educational Dominion Stream

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jremmons

Senior Member

07-08-2012

Thanks, Nyx87 and Awmaface, really appreciate the help. I've bought Soraka, Jax, Ryze, and Pantheon so I'm going to use the first 3 on bottom a lot and try and see how to make them work. I may go for Karthus/Malzahar later on. Thanks a ton, both of you.


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Awmaface

Junior Member

07-15-2012

Me again looking for Hecarim input lol.

So after finally getting the champ (not on free select) and have played him for a while, i feel that he does kinda suck :/ Not being able to win duels is really painful, and he seems to just get nuked by everyone. So i have looked around and read Saurons guild and have taken a lot from him (in addition to several online guides), but have come up with a similar thought but added a few tweekst. I now think of Hecarim as a 2v1 champ. Sure he goes top and fights for Windmill, but then starting at lvl 6, he will either try to back cap or gank bottom lane. His gank potential is pretty high, esp when he hits lvl 6 and has his fear gap closer, but also should have Sheen for added burst damage with his charge. But now i am getting a head of myself, below find what i plan for him:

Hecarim:
Masteries: 21-1-8
Summoner Spells: Revive, Exhaust
Runes: ArPen, scaling Health, scaling CDR, ArPen quints
Order: E->Q->W
Starting Items: Doran's Shield, Ruby, Boots, Pots
~10k Items: Ionian, Trinity, Brutalizer, Warden's Mail, Odyn's Veil, Doran's Shield
End Items: Ionian, Trinity, Ghostblade, Odyn's Veil, Randuins, QSS
Item order (generally): Sheen, Brutalizer, Trinity, Odyn's

Strategy:
Starting with Doran's Sield and Ruby gives you a good amount of life (300 HP) to sustain the early fight and added armor (10) (which Prospector Blade does not grant, and this frees up your Seals to be scaling HP rather than armor), using your flat ARpen runes to increase your effectiveness of Q and E; your auto attack sucks use it only as a stutter step, trick is to constantly move. Remember, if you stand and duel you lose. Once the Windmill fight is over, either move to the jungle with an ally (preferable with a stun) or wait to back cap mid or flank a solo enemy pushing minions top (towards an ally on top tower).

Hitting Level 6:
At this time you should been able to purchase Sheen, your E ability to lvl 3, and your Ult. This makes it great to cause problems in bot. If the bot lane is being pushed, Hec can then start with his E and push the enemy towards your tower and ally, and start nuking. If he uses a disengage, pop your Ult and watch him run in fear (literally) and make sure to position yourself with your back facing the enemy turret to increase the amount of hits to kill the champ, but it should be a quick fight. After the fight either cap the point when your bot lane bs to buy, or you go to the jungle as you b and heal, depending on the situation and who took the most blows during the fight. The goal is not to take the enemy point, the goal is to kill the bot lane champ and force them to blow revive and even pull more champs down, which makes it easier for top to defend or to push the enemy mid. If you are able to kill the champ and just neutralize the point, keep it up, since you did great, anything more than that you’re in a fantastic situation.

After lvl 6:
It is not your job to "defend a point." Your job is to cause chaos bot or split of forces with back caping. Sure, if your team is getting back caped by 1 other enemy champ, E him into your turret the best you can, but just kite around the turret. You will lose a duel off turret. Other than that, wait until the enemy is in a bad position (overextending or roaming alone), since that is when Hecarim shines, and getting down the timing of his E is critical. The most important thing to remember is there will be a time when Hecarim is squishy and any CC move is the bane of Hecarim’s existence. When he gets Odyn’s Veil he will have another move to his E combo (200-400 damage), and Warden’s Veil will have you survive longer versus an AD champ to run away and look for help.

Notes: If you played Hecarim early game well, you should have a small advantage and you need to make sure you dont lose it, never sit idle. Hecarim also is paired well with bot champs that start off slow and then become strong. A good example is Ryze with the fact that Ryze lacks a good aoe until he reaches lvl 6, so usually he will be pushed back to his tower, which makes the position in Hecarim's favor.
The down side to Hecarim is of course if there is another "counter Jungler" meaning if there is a good duelist champ that catches Hecarim from running around the jungle ganking bot or caping mid. A good counter to Hecarim's jungle game is also Teemo since he has the ability to spread shrooms everywhere, is this will lower Hec's movement speed thus lowering his bonus damage from his Passive.
With all of this taken into consideration, Hecarim is not a character to run all the time. He should mainly be paired with a good bot who uses the "Out-sustain the opponent and wait for early-game to pass" as Sauron describes it. Other good champs up top are good initiators like Amumu to soak up some of the damage, and then Hecarim to move a squishy closer or even use his ult to smack a pack.
Also Hecarim is able to use the team strategy of leaving bottom lane unprotected (like in hockey of removing the goalie) to then have 5vs4 top lane, and returning to bottom lane with an ally to gank. Works best again with someone with CC or an assassin.

Bottom line: Dont pick Hecarim unless you are very familiar with Dominion positioning, and have a weak early game bot, and a good initiator top.

I meant for this to be a quick question, not a 1000 word guide >< let me know how it sounds and then I can make a new forum post ^^


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awmaface View Post
Hecarim *Snip*
Your assessment of Hecarim is fairly accurate. I played him a few times(4 or 5) and was highly unimpressed with his damage output and kit. I was doing a skill order of Q>E>W as to me it seemed that you would want your spammable Q to be maxed first, however after looking at the damage numbers again maxing E gives you better burst initially which might help with his early game. You primarily rely on Q to proc sheen, so maxing E first won't gimp your damage and W is just there to allow Hecarim to survive a bit longer in full blown fights.

Again, you are correct about what Hecarim needs in terms of teammates for the most part. Bot he needs some sort of AP champion, since his ganks bring AD to the table, but the AP user needs some sort of lockdown(stun or perma slow work nicely) because Hecarim doesnt have much in the way of CC, he can only force people out of position. Hecarim can also help kill enemy bots who are just stalling because his ult pushes them away from himself, and he has the knockback, allowing your ally to finally close with them.

At top hecarim needs someone to engage first. he cannont engage by himself, or first, because he will just blow up due to a distict lack of mitigation abilities(W doesn't do much). Hec's job is to push squishier targets up front, closer to the fight, using his ult and knockback, which means he should be flanking from the side or back(remember the fear pushes people away from Hec, instead of making them wander aimlessly like Fiddles fear).

Overall, your items and Runes make sense. I would suggest Movespeed Quints though as they synergize with his passive quite well. Trinity tank seems to be the most effective build that worked for me, and that i have seen on other Hec's. Odyn's can be replaced by Force of Nature for more Movespeed and some decent HP regen if you dont need Odyn's Active. Dunno about brut, I always felt it set me too far behind in building trinity, but if you complete ghostblade the active on that is quite nice as well.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

07-18-2012

Going to stream tonight around 7 CST till 11 so tune in then!


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

07-18-2012

Here we go!


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KingofChickens

Junior Member

07-26-2012

Recently, with more and more Dom players switching to blind pick due to the ever increasing queue times in Draft, it has become hard to predict and attempt to counter the opposing team. What team comp do you think would have the greatest all around success?


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

07-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofChickens View Post
Recently, with more and more Dom players switching to blind pick due to the ever increasing queue times in Draft, it has become hard to predict and attempt to counter the opposing team. What team comp do you think would have the greatest all around success?
Short answer: A team comp that has a good mixture of Range(Melee vs Ranged), Roles, Damage Duration(sustained DPS vs Burst DPS), and Damage Type(True vs Magic vs Physical) has the greatest chance for success..

Long Answer to come!


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KingofChickens

Junior Member

07-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
hecarim needs someone to engage first. he cannont engage by himself, or first, because he will just blow up due to a distict lack of mitigation abilities
I find this hilarious because in just about any other game, the first thing you want to do with your Calvary is use them to charge straight into the front lines to shatter formation


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

08-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
Short answer: A team comp that has a good mixture of Range(Melee vs Ranged), Roles, Damage Duration(sustained DPS vs Burst DPS), and Damage Type(True vs Magic vs Physical) has the greatest chance for success..

Long Answer to come!
A good team comp comprises of these things(in no particular order):

Mixture of Range/Melee: One of the broader catagories, the reason is fairly simple, Melee champs tend to have beefier base stats than Ranged champs. This allows Ranged champs to build a bit more damage because they should have someone relatively beefy in front keeping them safe. Also, even with the slew of gap closers melee champs have, some ranged champs easily kite them into oblivion(Lulu, Ezreal come to mind), so if you have an all melee team you run the risk of never catching anyone important.

Role Variety: Every role brings something different to the table. AD carries have the highest physical damage output but are squishy, AP carries have the highest magical damage and are also squishy, Supports provide utility through CC and Buffs/Debuffs, Tanks hold the front line by locking down other melee champs and typically initiate fights through CC, Assassins (aka Anti-Carries) nuetralize high priority targets through burst and/or mobility, Fighters (aka tanky dps or bruisers) are great duelists and excel in small fights(1v1, 2v2, 1v2, etc). Some champs fulfill multiple roles such as Leona who is a Tank/Support or Urgot who is an Assassin/Fighter. By having champions with different roles you ready yourself for a multitude of senarios. Carries that are out of control are brought down by assassins, assassins are stopped by tanks, Supports keep carries alive or give fighters a friendly push towards their target, etc.

Damage Duration: This is something that a lot of people don't consider and it is actually fairly important. Having a decent mixture of Sustained and Burst damage is helpful. Burst allows you to eliminate high priority targets quickly, while sustained damage allows you to clean up fights. Generally Carries have high sustained damage, assassins have High burst damage, Fighters have medium burst and sustained damage, Supports have low Burst damage, and Tanks have low sustained damage.

Damage Type: One of the more important things you should consider is Damage Type, do you deal primarily physical(AD) or magical damage(AP)? The more damage variance you have, the harder it is for the enemy to counter you through itemization or a random champion selection. An all AD team will have trouble vs Thornmail/Randuins/Frozen heart and Malphite/Taric, while an all AP team will have trouble vs Odyn's/FoN/Hexdrinker and Galio/Soraka. If you do happen to be on a team that has all AD or AP, consider grabbing a really early Last Whisper or Void Staff if the enemy is stacking mitigation. True damage is also something to consider but really all champs have a primary damage(AD/AP) type that they deal, even "hybrids". Primarily consider True damage against Poppy.

This is just a general sense as to what you should consider when you set up teams. You should also consider how your champ synergizes with another, but that is for another post.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

08-01-2012

Going to stream tonight around 7pm cst