Hecarium OP?

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Imwetoddid

Senior Member

05-03-2012

You're listing his abilities on paper, which rarely translates well into practicality. Even Veigar or Sejuani's kit looks amazing if we detailed their abilities.

He's weak early game.
He's a poor duelist. Yes, dueling matters.
Other champions, like Wukong or Jax, scale better in to late game.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

05-03-2012

What is weak about his early game?

With boots/Prospectors, quints/etc, he will probably have an 8 AD boost from teh passive. Not bad.

His Q will hit for about 80 damage in a decent AoE, and repeats at 3 seconds and 2 seconds (minus a little bit of CDR from Defense) which is a lot faster than most champ's early abilities.

His Dread aura will do about 80 damage in a modest AoE and most likely give him about 50 health back (assuming you and allies deal about 500 damage during the 4 seconds of the Top fight)

The charge is a bit weak. Mostly just for getting him top faster, but pretty nice to be able to catch the eventual runner who tries to get away with low health.

he also has a bit higher health to start with, relative to most bruisers.


I concede that I havent really dualed any decent champions or seen him do so.

I can see where you come from though. His Q has a crappy AD ratio, and so does his Charge. His other 2 skills have a worthless AP ratio.
Hence I just build a triforce, prospectors, and a bunch of defense.


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Panwar

Senior Member

05-03-2012

With a brutilizer his early game is actually quite strong. It's his mid-game that suffers.

He's kinda like Renekton in that you can't just run willy nilly around and do whatever you want. He takes a certain technique to get the most out of his abilities. He's not the strongest duelist, but he's an excellent ganker/chaser/flanker.

His W can be either meh or fantastic depending on what kind of damage your enemies are taking at the time. If you are counting on your own damage to save you with W it's usually in the meh range.

As someone else said a couple posts higher, he's much better entering the fight a couple seconds after it started. To get the most out of his E. Both it's damage and it's ability to reposition.

I don't think that he's OP in any sense of the word. And pretty much all of the so-called ban or teir 1 champs are stronger players. But that's true of %80 of the champ roster. He's a solid pick as long as you play him to his strengths.


*edit*
A neat little trick and and example of using his abilities to their strengths.

If you are against a team without hard CC instead of rushing to WM at the start wait in the center bushes until all of their team has made it most of the way to the top. Rush up on their side of the WM with your E while chugging a health pot and slam someone into your own group on the other side. It's kind of a reverse Blitz grab, and it's the kind of thing that Hecarim should be looking to do in fights.


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Lethal stoner

Senior Member

05-03-2012

so far ive only played against him and either they were uther noobs but,

hec seems really really weak to me murdered his ass with trundle ez mode same with mao and with karma i had to kite him but he was easy aswell


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MajorUrsa

Senior Member

05-03-2012

He's incredibly underpowered and lackluster. His W suffers from reduced healing in CS meaning its not going very far for sustain in team fights and its completely useless for minion farming because if it's built in 50% health cap not to mention your going to probably level t last because of the poor damage and decreased utility.

His Q hits for next to nothing early on and only gets to be somewhat decent once you have Trinity backing it up.

His E does 50% damage unless you have the time to charge it. That hurts. If you get jumped you need to charge it before you utilize that short knockback or you get pitiful damage return.

His ultimate us awesome. Besides the fact that the CD is too long for the damage and disruption it offers. And it scales off AP.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

05-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorUrsa View Post
He's incredibly underpowered and lackluster. His W suffers from reduced healing in CS meaning its not going very far for sustain in team fights and its completely useless for minion farming because if it's built in 50% health cap not to mention your going to probably level t last because of the poor damage and decreased utility.

His Q hits for next to nothing early on and only gets to be somewhat decent once you have Trinity backing it up.

His E does 50% damage unless you have the time to charge it. That hurts. If you get jumped you need to charge it before you utilize that short knockback or you get pitiful damage return.

His ultimate us awesome. Besides the fact that the CD is too long for the damage and disruption it offers. And it scales off AP.

Everyone's heal is diminished in CS slightly. This isn't that big of an issue and I certainly don't see everyone skipping SpellVamp/Lifesteal/healers because of it.

His W aura deals full creep damage, but has a healing cap of 180 at rank 5. It is equivalent to a 30% lifesteal AND spell vamp, that ANY ALLY can help out with. This seems quite strong. Look what Sion does with 50% lifesteal...

With a pros blade and MS quints/masteries, he will typically start at 30 bonus AD. This puts his Q at 0.6x30+50 = 68 damage in an AoE with 3/2 sec cooldown for only 25 mana at rank 1.
Its not a panth spear, but its certainly not awful.

I agree that his Ult scaling sucks, but lets compare it to Malphites Ult: Pretty much same cooldown, MORE damage due to the shockwave effect, slightly longer range, similar disruption.


I guess maybe the people I am playing with just aren't good at countering him yet. Im kind of surprised to hear that he sucks, when hes done so well in games Ive seen him.

But after this discussion I can kinda see his weaknesses a bit more clearly. I think the key is to not try to boost his offense a whole lot (due to crappy scaling), but to just rely on CDR and Triforce as his main damaging items, and then boost defenses so he can tank better. He deals enough damage to be non-ignorable.


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Le Fiora Bot

Senior Member

05-04-2012

havent seen a good hecarim, only f2p one...


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Octovert

Senior Member

05-04-2012

CC is really important in fights, and dominion is no exception. Hecarim doesn't have much, and he doesn't do enough of anything else really. Yeah, he can hit you, and run fast...and that's it.


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IDontWasteFood

Senior Member

05-04-2012

I have seen Hec in first place once or twice but I feel like those were just lucky games where the player joined team fights late, and just collected the last hits. When I tried playing him he just feels so weak compared to other champs. He's kinda fun when you build up his run and just go trampling people but still he's weak imo.


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MajorUrsa

Senior Member

05-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Everyone's heal is diminished in CS slightly. This isn't that big of an issue and I certainly don't see everyone skipping SpellVamp/Lifesteal/healers because of it.

His W aura deals full creep damage, but has a healing cap of 180 at rank 5. It is equivalent to a 30% lifesteal AND spell vamp, that ANY ALLY can help out with. This seems quite strong. Look what Sion does with 50% lifesteal...

With a pros blade and MS quints/masteries, he will typically start at 30 bonus AD. This puts his Q at 0.6x30+50 = 68 damage in an AoE with 3/2 sec cooldown for only 25 mana at rank 1.
Its not a panth spear, but its certainly not awful.

I agree that his Ult scaling sucks, but lets compare it to Malphites Ult: Pretty much same cooldown, MORE damage due to the shockwave effect, slightly longer range, similar disruption.


I guess maybe the people I am playing with just aren't good at countering him yet. Im kind of surprised to hear that he sucks, when hes done so well in games Ive seen him.

But after this discussion I can kinda see his weaknesses a bit more clearly. I think the key is to not try to boost his offense a whole lot (due to crappy scaling), but to just rely on CDR and Triforce as his main damaging items, and then boost defenses so he can tank better. He deals enough damage to be non-ignorable.
The CDR tanky build does no damage unfortunately and if you build for damage he tends to die too quickly. He has no evasion or CC. His E has a 22 sec CD. You usually use it to initiate so you stand a chance at dealing any damage but then consequently you have no way to escape.

His W's damage is pathetic. It has a low base damage, and a low ratio based on AP, not to mention another nice long 10 sec CD (with CDR). Once you initiate he has nothing to do. Spam your Q and watch as your health goes down. That sustain is so low its not going to keep you up enough.


He can counter some matchuos and against glass cannon squishy champs he can be a threat, but any kind of CC destroys him. He's just like shyvana unfortunately .


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