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Garen...

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Matuk

Senior Member

08-13-2010

Why do people continue to place him at a very high tier?

I get that he has a spammable silence, but...for every role he performs, there's several better champions. So why do people still think he's top or second tier? The silence isn't even all that amazing. For every tank or carry out there, they've got BETTER forms of CC than him.
Probably could put this in champion feedback and such, but this is more of a strategy question, than feedback...

Just for one example, I see people placing Cho'gath BELOW Garen, which makes no sense to me. Cho'gath has an aoe knock-up that is spammable, an aoe silence that is spammable, extra aoe damage from his auto-attacks, and an insane-burst ult that way surpasses what Garen's ult can perform (plus giving him a bonus 900 HP at 6 stacks, and such a humongous model that it's hard NOT to hit him instead of the squishy champs), which is spammable enough without being game-breaking.
So yeah. What gives? I personally barely place Garen in the bottom tier.


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GreenTea Sama

Junior Member

08-14-2010

no mana
low cool down
35% damage reduction
+35/35 defensive stats

7s wait to regen at an insane rate

solid way to stay in lane during early game...amazing defense during mid/late game
offensively speaking...judgement deals a lot of damage early game combined with some armor pen runes

plus...he's really easy to play


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Matuk

Senior Member

08-14-2010

Quote:
GreenTea Sama:
no mana
low cool down
35% damage reduction
+35/35 defensive stats

7s wait to regen at an insane rate

solid way to stay in lane during early game...amazing defense during mid/late game
offensively speaking...judgement deals a lot of damage early game combined with some armor pen runes

plus...he's really easy to play

A lot of *early* game damage. And yet his passive tries to get you to play passively and farm to reach late game.

Very contradictory abilities, don't you think?

The no mana is a plus, yes. The W skill is great for taking damage, both passive and active. But he can't do ANYTHING to incite the other team to attack him. Not a **** thing. No taunt, no AOE disable. The only disable he DOES have, is a ****ty little melee-range silence. It helps, yes. It does. But there's better disables. A lot of them.

I have to wonder what Garen can actually DO for a team, besides soak damage if the other team is stupid and focuses him, and silence for a short duration on a single target. I don't like to play a champ hoping that the other team is stupid. That's a very poor strategy.
He's extremely lackluster, and frankly I'd rather have ANY of the other tanks or melee dps in the game on my team, in Garen's place.
You can't say that Garen is just an "anti-carry" because that's what a tank DOES. He counters the carries. Tanks are anti-carries. And Garen sucks as a tank.

If I want a tank, I call on Amumu, Cho'gath, Galio, Shen, Rammus, Alistar. Hell, even Mundo would be a better tank.
If I want melee dps, I'll call on Master Yi, Xin Zhao, Pantheon, Gangplank, Shaco (who is more gank/burst than DPS), Kat (again, more gank/burst), or any of the other hard-to-kill melee types: Mord and Mundo, for example.


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WolfjeNL

Junior Member

08-14-2010

garen can play really offence early game couse of his passive. Attack => take a bit to much damage. Play passive till your healed again => attack again.

And garen is not a tank, hes an off-tank. Meaning he runs straight for there carry in a teamfight. He can take the damage from a couple of aoe spells and stuff. And deals enough pain to there carry to make him switch target. If they focus you, your carry will dominate them. If they dont, you kill there carry.


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GreenTea Sama

Junior Member

08-14-2010

I'm seeing a lot of sunfire Garens these days...so you can manage to deal a lot of damage while just twirling around them...it doesn't really matter if they attack you or not because you can still deal a decent amount of damage to a lot of people

Also, I tend to notice...when people see someone charge at them...they instinctively CC them (silence, slow, stun, etc)
So muscular shinning twirling guy can still absorb a good amount of CC provided it's synched nicely with the rest of the team

I agree I've seen better tanks...but TBH...not that many
the only other tanks I like more would be Rammus, Shen, and Amumu


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Matuk

Senior Member

08-14-2010

Quote:
WolfjeNL:
garen can play really offence early game couse of his passive. Attack => take a bit to much damage. Play passive till your healed again => attack again.

And garen is not a tank, hes an off-tank. Meaning he runs straight for there carry in a teamfight. He can take the damage from a couple of aoe spells and stuff. And deals enough pain to there carry to make him switch target. If they focus you, your carry will dominate them. If they dont, you kill there carry.

Garen can't do enough damage, no matter how he builds, to take out a carry on his own, so long as they're not dumb little ****heads.

Garen is VERY obvious about when he's going to attack you, because he can do one thing, and one thing ONLY to close the gap: Decisive Strike and runreallyfast.
There's another champ that has no gap closer except high speed and a gimmicky move who was it now...oh wait, her name is Evelynn. And she's bottom tier.

Seriously, the only thing Garen has going for him AT ALL is that he's hard to kill. He isn't a BAD champ, he isn't a WEAK champ, but I don't see why people think he belongs in a top or even second tier category. He's low tier. There is only ONE melee champ that I would say is a worse choice than Garen and that, of course, is Evelynn. Every other melee champ is superior.


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GreenTea Sama

Junior Member

08-14-2010

evelyn and twitch now are almost useless in team fights now a days...
most people I know carry oracle in a situation like that...so eve and twitch can't really get through

from experience...I have seen Garens out last dps and mages to actually grab a few kills


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Matuk

Senior Member

08-14-2010

Quote:
GreenTea Sama:
evelyn and twitch now are almost useless in team fights now a days...
most people I know carry oracle in a situation like that...so eve and twitch can't really get through

from experience...I have seen Garens out last dps and mages to actually grab a few kills

Probably by stealing from his team. Garen's ult is the only way he can ever get a kill. He can't possibly do enough damage on his own to kill somebody, unless, again, they're being stupid and playing in such a way that ANYBODY can kill them.


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GreenTea Sama

Junior Member

08-14-2010

no...that 35% reduction every 10s for like 3s REALLY helps (you practically take no damage)...combined with a silence and spin...
like I said earlier...most Garens I see now stack 2 sunfires (most noticable)...so they can easily sit at 3k ish HP with a lot of armor
so it's a matter of outlasting the squishies...because he can easily do that


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Homez

Member

08-14-2010

My role as garen in arranged is to do spincombos with heavy ccs like mumu aoe stun +judgement etc.
i started of stacking sunfires and it was pretty nice. when i started goin crit & pure dmg with him, thats when he started getting sick. This only works if you know how to play your role as a dmg dealer, i could never be an initiator with pure dmg build obviously.


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