When WOULDN'T I want to buy Haunting Guise?

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FDru

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzoth View Post
i perfer starting cata+pots on my mages going top

as SOON as the team fight top starts your cata procs +250health +200 mana chug health pot for more health regen, chug second pot as needed
Something you don't do often I take it, since you can't take 2 pots with catalyst.


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SuperSobotka

Senior Member

05-02-2012

havnt played an ap on dom in about a week, still cata health+passive health+hp regen makes you scary tanky for the 4on4 team fight that eventually is going to break out top.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
Something you don't do often I take it, since you can't take 2 pots with catalyst.
Unless he takes the extra gold masteries

But then, does anyone do that?


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jars

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Senior Member

05-02-2012

because it's almost 1500 for a total of.. 25 ap. flat spell pen doesn't scale well.


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caydi

Member

05-02-2012

Needlessly large rod: 1600 gold, 80 AP
Haunting Guise: 1485 gold, 250 HP, 25 AP, 20 MPen

If you use a level 3 Null Sphere as an example:

180 tooltip damage
+0.7 per AP

On a target with 20 MPen (after other mpen):

NLR damage = 196 damage
HG damage = 205 damage

This is assuming you have 0 other AP. More AP makes haunting guise even more attractive. This is also assuming you aren't over or under penetrating (both situations make penetration look worse)

If you compare Rabadon's versus a Haunting Guise / Morello's combo,
and assume you have 50 AP from runes and masteries:

Rabadon's: 247 AP

HG / MET: 150 AP +250 HP +20% CDR + Mana regen + grievous wounds passive

Assuming level 5 Null Sphere:
On a target with 20 MPen (after other mpen):

Rab damage = 376 damage
HG/MET damage = 430 damage

Assuming target with 100 MR (after other mpen)

Rab damage = 226 damage
HG/MET = 211 damage

Haunting Guise is a decent item. Use your own discretion in deciding when to build it.


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Wyvernfist

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Also consider champs that like Mpen more than AP, like Warwick.


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KSHarrison

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Hmm sounds interesting! I think it might be more effective against bruiser comps that are likely to have early MR, either through treads or MR/level glyphs.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

05-03-2012

Could get HG, Ionian, and Sweeper, have max CDR very quickly, your spell pen and an appropriate amount of AP to suit it... and the nifty reveal passive/active.

Before Ionian boots were introduced to the game, HG wasn't a viable option at all since you could not forgo the spell pen... but now that you have that cheap early CDR option, HG becomes more attractive. You also have Codex/Morello's.

The effectiveness of flat pen is often underestimated in terms of how it improves your damage output, compared to raw AP. Unless your champion has some form of innate MR shred, you can often improve your damage by a greater amount for cheaper, than you would with raw AP.

Then you also can factor in the prospect of getting no incremental upgrades until you save 1600 gold, which could result in losing you and your team more gold than its worth, assuming you're losing towers/kills a result of the team power differential during the period of time it takes to save up that sum of gold.

I don't often build the NLR items on casters anymore, because tankiness, CDR, and penetration I find is more valuable in Dominion. I could be wrong, just my experience.


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Stez007

Senior Member

05-03-2012

Remember guys, Guise sells back for 1035, recouping all but 450 of its cost. Its EXTREMELY cost efficient to get an early guise and sell it for Void Staff later.

I always get Guise as my first item on AP chars (after prospectors+sorc boots).


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

05-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Unless he takes the extra gold masteries

But then, does anyone do that?
I do actually >.> People far underestimate the use of extra Gp5 and a pot's worth more of gold at the start.

Only have it set for 2 of my mastery pages though, one of which is my support one.

Anyway, yeah Guise is really good unless your target starts stacking Mres, which i've almost never seen anyone do for early or midgame.


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