When WOULDN'T I want to buy Haunting Guise?

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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

05-02-2012

I love starting Amp/Crystal/Boots now on almost all of my AP characters into quick sorc/guise, and I'm wondering when you'd ever not do that. I find the Mpen so much better than the minor Mp5 you get from a Prospector's ring (40 Mpen gets you true damage on most squishies, next to true damage on scaling mpen chars, and lets your damage remain competent with no further effort on targets up to about 100 Mres). Plus, Dominion games are short enough that I never really run into an incentive to sell the Guise for a slot.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

05-02-2012

When you want CDR.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cauldrath View Post
When you want CDR.
Morello's, which also handily gives Mp5 and a healing debuff. Not sure how this relates to the topic of Prosp start vs amp/crystal start though.


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Argodis

Senior Member

05-02-2012

I don't like Guise. That's 1485 gold that could have gone towards Deathcap, Zhonyas, Rylais, etc.

If I buy Guise, it's probably my 4th or 5th item after I already have Void Staff and Deathcap.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argodis View Post
I don't like Guise. That's 1485 gold that could have gone towards Deathcap, Zhonyas, Rylais, etc.

If I buy Guise, it's probably my 4th or 5th item after I already have Void Staff and Deathcap.
Try my start sometime on your fave AP caster (assuming we're not talking a pure sustained one like Swain or Aniv). You'll be surprised at the damage you kick out. It's strong enough that I feel safe mixing in a utility AP item (at this point usually deathfire or morello's) before my cap just thanks to how great it is to be dealing true or near true damage to everyone on the enemy team (or unaided resist amounts against the people who got some).


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

05-02-2012

OK, then, to be more specific - you can start with Fiendish Codex to start with CDR. Also, Haunting Guise costs more than Prospector's, so you're going to be spending more time building it before you can move on to other things, like CDR. Haunting Guise also becomes less effective later when opponents build some MR and then even less effective if you build a Void Staff.

Not saying it's a bad item, because flat pen will wreck some squishies, but it's not the end-all-be-all. You also can't buy it for the first windmill fight, when flat pen is most effective because almost no builds MR that early.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cauldrath View Post
OK, then, to be more specific - you can start with Fiendish Codex to start with CDR. Also, Haunting Guise costs more than Prospector's, so you're going to be spending more time building it before you can move on to other things, like CDR. Haunting Guise also becomes less effective later when opponents build some MR and then even less effective if you build a Void Staff.

Not saying it's a bad item, because flat pen will wreck some squishies, but it's not the end-all-be-all. You also can't buy it for the first windmill fight, when flat pen is most effective because almost no builds MR that early.
That costs though because you're starting with no boots, and I really feel it's a good idea to have tier one boots for the windmill fight. Going AP bot I can definitely see a codex start, but not for windmill.

Mostly the only people I see who really stack MR are tank characters (Ali/Singed/etc.). Bruisers will usually make do with Mercs and/or hexdrinker, and AP casters generally only do Negatron into Abyssal. Neither of which add up to more than ~50 extra Mres, which means you're still looking at reducing them to about 40-50 mr.


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Argodis

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Try my start sometime on your fave AP caster (assuming we're not talking a pure sustained one like Swain or Aniv). You'll be surprised at the damage you kick out. It's strong enough that I feel safe mixing in a utility AP item (at this point usually deathfire or morello's) before my cap just thanks to how great it is to be dealing true or near true damage to everyone on the enemy team (or unaided resist amounts against the people who got some).
I have tried basically every AP build. Early on the combination of Sorc Shoes + Haunting Guise is really nice but it's something I didn't get the best results with.

I got noticeably better results going Propsector's -> Sorc Shoes -> Needlessly Large Rod/Blasting Wand.

Maybe it's just my play style but that's what works for me. I also lost more games than I won when Guise was my first or second item. I rather just have more raw AP and complete the more important items faster.


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SuperSobotka

Senior Member

05-02-2012

i perfer starting cata+pots on my mages going top

as SOON as the team fight top starts your cata procs +250health +200 mana chug health pot for more health regen, chug second pot as needed
usually the fight goes on long enough for you to hit level 5 BAM +250 health +200 mana
if you win the team fight and then have to defend mid level 6 BAM +250 health +200 mana

because you level up so fast in dom its useful the entire game, you dont even need to build a ROA.

your probably going to be targeted first in the team fight top, so the innate +health and the passive +health really helps your surviveability, and helps you from running OOM

seriously try it.


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FDru

Senior Member

05-02-2012

You're rushing 50+ spell pen when most champs don't get more than 30 MR until they start building it.

If you want to rush a cheap effective item with a ruby + tome, rush a Sweeper.


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