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LoLU Lesson 6: Initial Items

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Dane Belthound

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
Jurgrady:
You should add in a section about going back with a bit more. I often find myself skipping dorans altogether because I'm going back with 1k plus and can get something a bit more immediately needed as well as wards and pots.


I used to be a no doran's guy but it makes a world of difference. The boost in health is huge early game. The boost in AD and some lifesteal make sustain and last hitting minions much easier. Really is no downside to an early dorans.


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Panzerfaust

Emissary of the League

05-02-2012

Quote:
Dane Belthound:
I used to be a no doran's guy but it makes a world of difference. The boost in health is huge early game. The boost in AD and some lifesteal make sustain and last hitting minions much easier. Really is no downside to an early dorans.


They delay your core build; whether or not it's worth it depends on the match, but it's a definite downside.


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aviraaaa

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
Panzerfaust:
They delay your core build; whether or not it's worth it depends on the match, but it's a definite downside.


Like you guys said, it really is dependent on who you've got in your lane and who you've got opposing you. But Doran's isn't as bad of a choice as a lot of people think, it's just not as good since the nerf.


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Lord Tolkien

Senior Member

05-02-2012

Quote:
MikeLemmer:
What Not to Do with 475 Gold

Don't buy a Doran's first. I don't care what the Suggested Item Build shows, don't buy a Doran's first.

Why not?
Because then you can't buy health potions. The extra 80/120 HP is nothing compared to the extra 450-750 HP you get with pots.

So don't buy them at all.
I didn't say that.

Well, when do you buy them then?
Second. You buy them second. You buy them second, and third, and perhaps even fourth. Once you've got some spare cash to buy a Doran's and a few wards/pots with one Recall, that's when you start buying them.

Wait, 2-3 Doran's?!
Yes. Doran's items provide a nice early/mid-game boost for laning, plus they're a cheap way of filling up those extra item slots until you buy bigger items. While your rival holds off on buying anything to get a BFS, you can lay waste to his minions and pelt him for 90-100 damage a shot.

A good rule of thumb for laning carries is "buy at least 1 Doran's, buy more if you're losing the lane."

Sorry Mike, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. There are situations where a Dorans Shield or Dorans Blade start is acceptable (the former are situational starts on characters like Mundo and Shen, while the latter is an item you may pick up as an AD with certain supports [say, Soraka, or if you're Trist {in which case, the extra HP is necessary for you to be able to go all-in}]). A blade is also an extremely powerful item for trading. There are also some AP mids which CAN start with a Ring, but again it is a very risky start.

Now the reason why you usually start boots+3 is for the extra mobility (and thus survivability from jungle ganks, as well as the extra 450hp in lane). However, a Dorans start is a very strong start in some instances (bot lane, for instance, can often go for a Blade if they're long range/can expect relatively low amounts of poke or are laning with a sustain support).

If I am playing, say, Caitlyn/Taric or Caitlyn/Sona (or hell, any Caitlyn lane) vs a Vayne/Janna, there is no reason for me not to get a Dorans blade to start over boots. Vayne can't trade with Caitlyn at all (exacerbated by the Dorans Blade), and thus solidifies my ability to outtrade and outharass the Vayne into nothingness. So long as there are proper wards from the support, the Dorans start cements my lane dominance and facilitates harder harass/deny.

Quote:
Panzerfaust:
They delay your core build; whether or not it's worth it depends on the match, but it's a definite downside.

It can delay your core build. However, straight up buying a BF sword makes your laning hell if you aren't already crushing it. If its even/in their favor, grabbing a BF sword and forgoing Dorans is essentially handing the lane to the opponent, who will be able to outtrade you, outsustain you, and beat you up in a straight up fight (2/3 dorans+zerkers>BF+Boot-1).

It's similar to the trade-off between a Bloodthirster and an Infinity Edge. On a number of champions, you will want an IE first immediately (Trist, Ashe, Cait), but an enemy AD carry with zerkers, 3 dorans, and a BT will beat an AD carry with zerkers, 2 dorans, and an IE pretty much every time (and be a larger mid-game threat). It does however come with a tradeoff with the later transition into late game (and the LW/PD/IE trinity which makes AD carries AD carries).


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MikeLemmer

Member

05-02-2012

Thanks for elaborating on some of the exceptions there, Tolkien. Providing links & explanations for some of the abbrieviations used:

BF Sword = B.F. Sword (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/B._F._Sword) (Attack > Damage)

zerkers = Berserker's Greaves (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Greaves) (Movement, Attack > Attack Speed)

BT = Bloodthirster (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/The_Bloodthirster) (Attack > Damage, Attack > Life Steal), damage + life steal that increases with minion & champion kills.

The Holy Trinity of AD Carries

IE = Infinity Edge (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Infinity_Edge) (Attack > Damage, Attack > Critical Strike), damage + crit chance that boosts your crit damage to 250%.

PD = Phantom Dancer (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Phantom_Dancer) (Movement, Attack > Attack Speed, Attack > Critical Strike), increases your movement, attack speed, and crit chance.

LW = Last Whisper (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Last_Whisper) (Attack > Damage), damage + 40% Armor Penetration.


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AkitaNeru

Recruiter

05-02-2012

I think the point here is that, as a newcomer to the game, Doran's items are far riskier to begin with.

Once a player is more accustomed to laning phase and is comfortable with harassing the opponent and being harassed by them, Doran's can be an acceptable item.


Personally, I still stand by the concept that the two non-shield Doran's items (but even more so for the blade, specifically) as starting items are more geared towards early aggression. You can similarly start by popping a red potion, but it's more temporary and even more heavily geared towards early aggression.


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CrippledNippled

Member

05-03-2012

homerdinger can start durgan ring cus him pasiv


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Lord Tolkien

Senior Member

05-03-2012

Quote:
AkitaNeru:
I think the point here is that, as a newcomer to the game, Doran's items are far riskier to begin with.

Once a player is more accustomed to laning phase and is comfortable with harassing the opponent and being harassed by them, Doran's can be an acceptable item.


Personally, I still stand by the concept that the two non-shield Doran's items (but even more so for the blade, specifically) as starting items are more geared towards early aggression. You can similarly start by popping a red potion, but it's more temporary and even more heavily geared towards early aggression.

And I agree. However, that should be qualified to explain the reason why you'd go boots-3 pots over Dorans at lower levels (vs trying for a Dorans start). It's still viable (and you can't disqualify it for newbies), just highly unoptimal for them.

One of the biggest problems newbies haven't picked up on are generally an unwillingness to buy health pots. Long ago, I was the same (and didn't start doing it until level 15-20ish), however nowadays, I know better and keep a slot full of health pots (2-5, depending on lane, gold, and time into the game) at all times, up until deep into the midgame.


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AkitaNeru

Recruiter

05-03-2012

Quote:
Lord Tolkien:
And I agree. However, that should be qualified to explain the reason why you'd go boots-3 pots over Dorans at lower levels (vs trying for a Dorans start). It's still viable (and you can't disqualify it for newbies), just highly unoptimal for them.

One of the biggest problems newbies haven't picked up on are generally an unwillingness to buy health pots. Long ago, I was the same (and didn't start doing it until level 15-20ish), however nowadays, I know better and keep a slot full of health pots (2-5, depending on lane, gold, and time into the game) at all times, up until deep into the midgame.


This, a hundred times over. I was the same until I was well into the 20s on my summoner level. I'm actually not sure where the "no health pots for me!" mentality stems from. Might just be natural instinct to hoard as much money as possible.


And yes, qualifying the reasoning that Doran's is a bad/risky/etc. item for newer players is probably a good idea.


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TwistWrist

Senior Member

05-03-2012

Quote:
Jurgrady:
You should add in a section about going back with a bit more. I often find myself skipping dorans altogether because I'm going back with 1k plus and can get something a bit more immediately needed as well as wards and pots.


Meh, I've gone back to shop with 2k gold as AD Carry. Sometimes, I'll buy 2 Doran's, Spell vamp, and finish my boots.

Mostly because it is safer and I didn't have an overwhelming advantage that I could go BF sword with no spell vamp.


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