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A Guide To Tribunal

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Saint Latona

Senior Member

07-10-2013

Quote:
St3cK:
Ah, well I apologize for my nooby ignorance in bashing the first thing that seemed like it was frustrating me.

Where should I go to supply feedback for leaverbuster, because it seems I'm way off base with my rant. Sorry tribunal!

I guess part of my opinion still works in the sense of the lower ranks will most likely have a more difficult time self regulating, whereas higher ranks may be slightly better.

Not sure, guess I'll have to wait to experience this system for myself!

Here's the LeaverBuster FAQ so that you can learn more about the system. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=393307)


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Shotty

Senior Member

07-28-2013

**** lol


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PurpleYukari

Senior Member

07-28-2013

Quote:
AvengedGaming:
**** lol


Uninstall. Riot doesn't want you playing their game.


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TypicalGamerDude

Member

08-03-2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT75udNgfl4

Please do something about who is able to judge in the tribunal and who isn't, because like the above video shows, clearly there are a lot of abusers..


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LittleDi

Senior Member

08-03-2013

Quote:
TypicalGamerDude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT75udNgfl4

Please do something about who is able to judge in the tribunal and who isn't, because like the above video shows, clearly there are a lot of abusers..

They already did... More than a year ago now.


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Summoner of Oz

Junior Member

08-11-2013

Nice thread!


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Häßlich

Senior Member

09-09-2013

I can't believe people still think the Tribunal is a good system. It's inherently unjust because the same community that accuses is the community that judges. This needs to go away. Forever.


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Jhregh

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Häßlich:
I can't believe people still think the Tribunal is a good system. It's inherently unjust because the same community that accuses is the community that judges. This needs to go away. Forever.


Ahh such compelling evidence. How inquisitive and revealing this evidence was. Also, the tribunal does what it was ment to do, punish the bad players. why do the means matter if the ends are not harmful. (please note, saying the ends are harmful means you have been banned by tribunal and, therefore, are too biased against it)


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Häßlich

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Jhregh:
Ahh such compelling evidence. How inquisitive and revealing this evidence was. Also, the tribunal does what it was ment to do, punish the bad players. why do the means matter if the ends are not harmful. (please note, saying the ends are harmful means you have been banned by tribunal and, therefore, are too biased against it)


Actually, I have never been banned, but do find the ends and the means both to be harmful. I've played this game for several years now, and have seen the community grow MORE toxic--not less--and often it's because of the reporting/Tribunal system. As for evidence, it's equally foolish to believe the data supporting such a system when its source is the same party whose interest it is in to supply whatever data fits their purpose. Show me some independent, third-party data that shows any real benefit to the Tribunal system, and we may have a discussion worth having. Until then, it's their word vs a negative trend in player behavior.

I'm sure you have heard of the player who gets banned, then makes new accounts with the sole intent of ruining as many games as possible. That's because banning that person was not the right approach. This violates that person's sense of worth in the game when the money they have spent on it is gone, and they have nothing to show for it. Did they do something to get banned in the first place? Probably, but I've seen this community. I've seen the ridiculous things people will report you for. I don't believe a ban can be justified unless it is for something actually illegal or game-breaking such hacking, dos attacks, real life threats, or legitimate harassment (not this "he 'harassed' me by hurting my feelings in one match" nonsense). This just points back to my original statement. The accusers cannot also be the judges or jurors. They are inherently biased, and the room for abuse on this is significant.

Specifically, even if they design it so that a person who clicks Punish every time eventually reaches a 50/50 correctness ratio and has their Tribunal privileges revoked, the damage has been done. That person has contributed to the punishment (and possible ban) of every person who came up on his case list. "Well he's only one person. He only gets one vote." True, but he's not the only one doing it. Read through these forums enough, and you'll see all kinds of people who generally click Punish every time, or almost every time, through the logic that the accused wouldn't be in the Tribunal unless he was reported a significant number of times prior (which goes back to the false reporting issue).

It's a vicious cycle, really. We have a highly toxic community that Riot tries to steer away from negative behavior through punishments that only engender more toxicity. The players aren't going to change when you ban them. Okay, some will, but many more will only get worse, and this only continues to spread the toxicity throughout the community. There are dozens of other things that contribute to this: champ select, the current meta (or specifically, how players treat it), the surrender vote and the rules concerning it, champion balance/picks/counterpicks and snowballing, etc. Individually, these things alone would not be too big of a concern, but collectively have produced one of the worst gaming communities outside of Xbox Live's Halo and COD online communities.

Don't get me wrong. This is a great game. The problem lies in Riot's policies, customer service, and treatment of players. They have the power to undo a lot of this damage. In fact, if they were to make the right combination of decisions, they could probably outright prevent 90%+ of toxic behavior, and the effects would be seen seemingly over night. The one thing I agree with in their claims is that most players are not innately toxic. The difference is that they (Riot) attribute it to a "bad day" or outside influences (work/school/relationships etc) while I attribute it to a system of features and policies that create frustration and team dysfunction--which leads to player toxicity. Why do I believe this over their version? It's simple: I don't see these issues nearly as often or as severely in other competitive online games. Therefor, the blame rests where they have the least in common, and that is Riot. This is only a negative right now. The positive is that Riot has the power to change this. I sincerely hope they do.


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Saint Latona

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Häßlich:
Actually, I have never been banned, but do find the ends and the means both to be harmful. I've played this game for several years now, and have seen the community grow MORE toxic--not less--and often it's because of the reporting/Tribunal system. As for evidence, it's equally foolish to believe the data supporting such a system when its source is the same party whose interest it is in to supply whatever data fits their purpose. Show me some independent, third-party data that shows any real benefit to the Tribunal system, and we may have a discussion worth having. Until then, it's their word vs a negative trend in player behavior.

I'm sure you have heard of the player who gets banned, then makes new accounts with the sole intent of ruining as many games as possible. That's because banning that person was not the right approach. This violates that person's sense of worth in the game when the money they have spent on it is gone, and they have nothing to show for it. Did they do something to get banned in the first place? Probably, but I've seen this community. I've seen the ridiculous things people will report you for. I don't believe a ban can be justified unless it is for something actually illegal or game-breaking such hacking, dos attacks, real life threats, or legitimate harassment (not this "he 'harassed' me by hurting my feelings in one match" nonsense). This just points back to my original statement. The accusers cannot also be the judges or jurors. They are inherently biased, and the room for abuse on this is significant.

Specifically, even if they design it so that a person who clicks Punish every time eventually reaches a 50/50 correctness ratio and has their Tribunal privileges revoked, the damage has been done. That person has contributed to the punishment (and possible ban) of every person who came up on his case list. "Well he's only one person. He only gets one vote." True, but he's not the only one doing it. Read through these forums enough, and you'll see all kinds of people who generally click Punish every time, or almost every time, through the logic that the accused wouldn't be in the Tribunal unless he was reported a significant number of times prior (which goes back to the false reporting issue).

It's a vicious cycle, really. We have a highly toxic community that Riot tries to steer away from negative behavior through punishments that only engender more toxicity. The players aren't going to change when you ban them. Okay, some will, but many more will only get worse, and this only continues to spread the toxicity throughout the community. There are dozens of other things that contribute to this: champ select, the current meta (or specifically, how players treat it), the surrender vote and the rules concerning it, champion balance/picks/counterpicks and snowballing, etc. Individually, these things alone would not be too big of a concern, but collectively have produced one of the worst gaming communities outside of Xbox Live's Halo and COD online communities.

Don't get me wrong. This is a great game. The problem lies in Riot's policies, customer service, and treatment of players. They have the power to undo a lot of this damage. In fact, if they were to make the right combination of decisions, they could probably outright prevent 90%+ of toxic behavior, and the effects would be seen seemingly over night. The one thing I agree with in their claims is that most players are not innately toxic. The difference is that they (Riot) attribute it to a "bad day" or outside influences (work/school/relationships etc) while I attribute it to a system of features and policies that create frustration and team dysfunction--which leads to player toxicity. Why do I believe this over their version? It's simple: I don't see these issues nearly as often or as severely in other competitive online games. Therefor, the blame rests where they have the least in common, and that is Riot. This is only a negative right now. The positive is that Riot has the power to change this. I sincerely hope they do.

Keep in mind that the majority of the toxicity comes from positive players. That being said, those who have been banned by the Tribunal are the worst 0.1% of the playerbase.