The moment of truth

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Helping Garen out

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Luckybed

Senior Member

04-26-2012

I tried. The most common counter-argument is that Garen has a strong laning phase. There is a difference between early game damage output and laning. Spin-to-win does incredibly nice damage. But by level 4, he is flat-out countered by every top laner because he simply cannot trade. Fixing his laning buffs his late game by making the enemy bruiser top that much weaker due to less items or finishing the core build later into the game.

For more Garen fun, look at this thread regarding his ultimate: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...garen+ultimate

There is a lot of text, but I have bold words. Skip down to them to read the important parts.

Yes, I Googled Garen+buff+other words. I got some pretty bad posts. So, hopefully this one will be better.

TL;DR: Garen is not as strong as he should be. I mean, look at him. Shiny armor, awesome sash, and ability to walk straight after spinning. That man should be given a medal . . . or buffs. I am touching the passive and spin-to-win (in bold to easily spot). Also, I want to see Garen in the jungle. Nothing says, "I'm awesome" more so than running out of the river killing people.

What happened to Garen? Basically the QQ and therefore skippable.
He is awesome. Spin to win and stuff. But his farming capabilities are weak. He is easily harassed and whatnot and has no sustain. Whatever. Spin on a champion early game and the enemy is at half health. And his passive is like, eh I'm here.

He is terrible. Late game, try to do damage. Nothing happens. Silence the enemy that is attacking the carry. Wait 7 seconds for the silence ability to come back up. Pop Randiun and other aura items to help team win the team fight. Sweet. Otherwise, stand there thinking you are helping. *Insert "I'm Jarvan and I am helping" picture into reader's head.*

How to step him up? Read this part
His passive is terribad. It does nothing for him. If one minion dare sneezes on your shiny armor with that awesome sash and incredibly big sword, it goes "eh, too dangerous. Peace out Garen." BUFF IT SO IT DOES NO GO AWAY WHEN A MINION SNEEZES ON GAREN (PCM can still disable it because PCM is op and tank minion can disable the passive, too.)
Also, for the jungle.......can you just let it stay up, please? Another idea, make it disabled when the big neutral monster hits Garen. Therefore, the passive will be off at the start of every camp making his passive not be super ridiculous when jungling.

I'm fine with Decisive Strike and Courage staying the same. If the enemy team is CCing you, then they are not targetting your carries, WHICH IS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. The only bad thing about these abilities are the cool down timers . . . lower then by 1 second and 3 seconds, respectively. Please? ^.^

Now for that Spin-to-Win. Tweak the interaction with minions, maybe a %40 reduction of damage. Yes, I want him to do more damage, but only to minions. He does massive damage in champion to champion trading, but is slow against minions. The critical damage enhancer can be removed to justify that buff. *Notice, small buff to jungling. Hue.

To clarify what I am fixing on Garen.

The passive buff will help Garen throughout the game due to the now working passive. Hopefully, neutral camps won't disable the passive (fingers crossed). Basically, Garen at level 1 will have a FoN unless hit by a champion or big neutral creep. The passive timer can be set back to 10 seconds if needed but honestly, 7 seconds is more than long enough. I am just sick and tired of a minion sneezing on Garen therefore removing the pretty alright passive.

The spin-to-win buff will make Garen farm better. There is no reason for him to do such little damage with such a high CD. He does not use resource but has really high cool downs. Let him have fun with his abilities like Vlad and Kennen. I mean, watching Garen spinning is hilarious BUT watching Garen spin and killing 100 minions would be jaw dropping. For Rioters reading this thread, please get LIVE TESTING to record then post Garen spinning and killing 100 minions. Ok? Thanks.

Closing
Garen has a decent kit but is plagued with poor damage output and lack of utility. I can easily see these same tweaks rocket Garen to a competitive and fun position in league without making him incredibly annoying to play against. Also, he could be a super hilarious jungler. Regarding jungling . . .

Also, I want to see him in the jungle. His jungling time is surprisingly not bad and his health is pretty solid with a leash (start red d'uh). But he is super easy to counter-jungle due to lack of damage and sustain. By tweaking the passive to allow it to be disabled by big creeps, Garen can comfortably farm in jungle and not be a drag on the team if he is counter-jungled. Also, imagine him invade. omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg.

First round of comments:
People think that I am making him god-tier laning and whatnot. I honestly am not. His passive does not exist during the laning phase. If Garen is counting on his passive for sustain, then he is missing out on exp and CS.
Regarding damage, you can have your damage in the early part of the match. By buffing his farming ability, he basically becomes a shyvanna or mundo but with a sword and spins. These tweaks do nothing amazing for Garen. They are simply minor annoyance that can easily be changed, and by changing them, make Garen that much more fun to play.


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Luckybed

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Space saved for hueing.

For more hues, visit http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1806054.
This link discusses buffing Renek and Nasus.


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Luckybed

Senior Member

04-26-2012

sneeze


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Lavoera

Senior Member

04-26-2012

If you think Garen has low damage, clearly you never build IE on him.


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c0ltron

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Senior Member

04-26-2012

I doubt they will change him any time soon. He is a pub stomper. Any half decent player using him while leveling up an alt or smurfing walks all over the enemy team.

I dont approve of not buffing champions because of low level or low Elo abuse, but Riot has taken this stance in the past.


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smilefase

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Senior Member

04-26-2012

I don't like how his ult clashes with the rest of his kit. That is it.

There is no way in hell Riot should buff the character who has the strongest early game.


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Luckybed

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavoera View Post
If you think Garen has low damage, clearly you never build IE on him.
and clearly you have never won a ranked game with him.

I have built an IE on him in a bot match. I was fed as all get out. I would rather build it on a ranged carry.


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Luckybed

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by smilefase View Post
I don't like how his ult clashes with the rest of his kit. That is it.

There is no way in hell Riot should buff the character who has the strongest early game.
Strongest early game???

Level 1 and level 2 does not count as early game. Early game starts around level 7. And boy, I can show you some pubstomping early game and hey, I'll let you play Garen, too.


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Vuther

Senior Member

04-26-2012

I'm pretty sure removing the critical damage enhancer on Judgement would pretty much drop Garen from being bad late-game to useless.


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Luckybed

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuther View Post
I'm pretty sure removing the critical damage enhancer on Judgement would pretty much drop Garen from being bad late-game to useless.
How? Building Atmas is not necessary. Randiun is more than amazing for offering health and armor. You want crit damage? Give it to your carry.

Garen does not need damage. He needs presence. By being a weak farmer, he loses all-late game potential. If you solo top with Garen and are out CS'ed and outleveled, then you lose the game. If you are on par with the other laner, then you can zone out the enemy team. Garen is fine, just find a good team.