Honestly Guys it needs to stop.

First Riot Post
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ChiptheCrypt

Senior Member

04-25-2012

Not much to add to this discussion besides providing my support by upvoting and bumping, hope some well needed change can finally come to the gaming community.


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Sandrothefomar

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Senior Member

04-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekkal View Post
I'm putting off a ton of work, so this should be a lot of fun to dismantle step-by-step until lunch.



I absolutely am quite rude to, even harassing of, anyone I see as a negative influence. The difference between me and someone who preys on people is that I only am disrespectful to those who go out causing trouble. I never called you a teenager, I said your post "reeked of teenager", and then offered reasons why. You remind me of the teenagers I see, directly opposing your own claim that you are "mature".



I offered counterpoints to everything I said when I rejected your statements as those of someone who is immature or lacking in understanding.



I also have been a part of tabletop gaming, roleplaying gaming, and CCG cultures. The social rules/mores are roughly the same.

As for where you stated you are mature? Here, I'll bold it for you:



Also, I quoted this same sentence directly in the post you responded to. You are very clearly incapable of handling yourself. Even when you try to sound intelligent and snarky, you can't quite pull it off. Stop arguing for an indefensible position.
You two are the whole problem at hand. Everyone trying to one up one another. Arguing over nothing. Who cares if said person is mature or not? Who cares if you only insult people who are insulting other people. I probably do the same thing at times, but it's basically the same thing and just makes the cycle endless. :/


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Cerevus

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Senior Member

04-25-2012

Quote:
Also, I quoted this same sentence directly in the post you responded to. You are very clearly incapable of handling yourself. Even when you try to sound intelligent and snarky, you can't quite pull it off. Stop arguing for an indefensible position.
What you quoted was "We are mature," not "I am mature," which is what you were saying. The "we" that I was referring to in my tl;dr was referring to the community. I was saying that WE are mature as a whole and WE can handle ourselves. WE don't need Riot to implement some system that could allow more abuse than it solves. WE can just treat others BETTER ourselves. If you disagree, well, then that might be more telling of YOU than ME.

But this is a nitpick. My maturity doesn't really have anything to do with my position.

Quote:
The difference between me and someone who preys on people is that I only am disrespectful to those who go out causing trouble.
And I'm not (with intent) trying to be disrespectful to anyone. I'm also not "trying" to sound intelligent or snarky (do you have to keep bringing up personal attacks? I thought this thread was about the OPPOSITE of that.).

Quote:
I offered counterpoints to everything I said when I rejected your statements as those of someone who is immature or lacking in understanding.
Well, for my sake then, please try to offer something a little more substantial than "you're just immature, so your arguments are invalid." Go back to my original post, pick any of the three points that I made, and please counter one of them. Let's have a dialogue. Again, I'm not TRYING to be disrespectful to ANYONE, I would just like to explain my position.

If you don't have anything else to say besides, "well you sound like an immature, wanna-be intellectual teenager so whatever you say doesn't matter" then it's been fun and have a great day, dude. : )


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Bekkal

Senior Member

04-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrothefomar View Post
You two are the whole problem at hand. Everyone trying to one up one another. Arguing over nothing. Who cares if said person is mature or not? Who cares if you only insult people who are insulting other people. I probably do the same thing at times, but it's basically the same thing and just makes the cycle endless. :/
The problem is he, and those like him, are literally arguing FOR the status quo of "it's ok to be mean to people because it's the internet". These people can never be tolerated or have their points blindly accepted, or the status quo will never change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerevus View Post
And I'm not (with intent) trying to be disrespectful to anyone. I'm also not "trying" to sound intelligent or snarky (do you have to keep bringing up personal attacks? I thought this thread was about the OPPOSITE of that.).
If you're supporting the idea of anyone being a **** to others because they have the protection of anonymity provided by the internet, and are against valid methods with which to police those people, then you are providing the only argument I will ever need.

Edit: To clarify, because for some reason you need it - I wasn't insulting you by calling you a teenager. I was referring to the fact that you literally are not mature enough as a person to have a valid point in this discussion because you still believe "grow thicker skin" even remotely approaches a valid argument.

Hint: We don't tell citizens to "get better at fighting" in our society if someone mugs them. We have laws that protect them instead. Think about why laws exist (on a fundamental level), then come back to the discussion. Otherwise you're just going to keep spewing nonsense.


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Cerevus

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Senior Member

04-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekkal View Post
The problem is he, and those like him, are literally arguing FOR the status quo of "it's ok to be mean to people because it's the internet". These people can never be tolerated or have their points blindly accepted, or the status quo will never change.
Then you didn't read my entire first post, just part of it, I guess. This is not my position at all. <3

Quote:
If you're supporting the idea of anyone being a **** to others because they have the protection of anonymity provided by the internet, and are against valid methods with which to police those people, then you are providing the only argument I will ever need.
Which is exactly NOT what I'm saying. My main point is that we don't need to add policing systems to the game that can be abused by the public. We already have a profanity filter, a mute option, the ability to queue with friends, bot games, the tribunal ... do you genuinely think we need something ELSE? At this point, it's on the receiver to be responsible for what they're receiving. We already have a crapton of tools at our disposal to ignore the negativity.


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SarPark

Junior Member

04-25-2012

Never really understood why you could send messages to people who aren't on your friends list on XBOX live and PSN in the 1st place...


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Top Hat

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Senior Member

04-25-2012

I like what you said about having a perfectly civil game being a rarity...I have had 2 such games in about ~1,200-1,300 games played and I remember both of them distinctly as even though one team has to lose, it doesn't mean it can't be fun - I personally was on the losing side of one of those games; it was a 5v4. Everyone was kind and civil about it (on both sides) and we pretty much just had fun with it until it was over. Usually I'm the one spamming the 'surrender' button at this point because not only do I have to sit through a losing game, it's made 10x worse by immature comments and remarks from both my own "team" and the opposing team.

It shouldn't be this way. I agree that automute would be a wonderful feature, but I wonder how big of an impact it would really have. I'd certainly be willing to give it a shot.


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EEC JpLosman

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Senior Member

04-25-2012

last i checked this was AMERICA...


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Bekkal

Senior Member

04-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerevus View Post
Then you didn't read my entire first post, just part of it, I guess. This is not my position at all. <3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerevus View Post
I know that I'll talk a little more harshly to strangers than I will to friends that I queue with

If I see them get ganked at top three times fourteen minutes in, I'm going to tell them to man up and buy some wards.

If I say to that person up top, "holy **** bro, buy some **** wards and stop feeding!" is that considered harassment? To some people, yes, but how -I- mean it (in the heat of action) is to get some wards and start paying better attention.


We're going to be naturally inclined to be more aggressive toward a stranger that we think is leading us to a defeat by not playing smart.

Perhaps take the advice, even if it came to you in a hostile form.

I feel like this whole message is pandering to the weak. If the words of some stranger online genuinely offend you, then sure, that's why we have the mute option. But trying to implement systems that can be manipulated and worked around because your skin is too thin is a band-aid on a bullet wound.


I mean, honestly, when was the last time YOU spoke to four feeding strangers like that?
Tell me again how you aren't arguing either in favor of the abusive people, or that being abusive online is the norm and should be accepted.


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Eruka Frog

Senior Member

04-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerevus View Post
Be your own change. Don't let negativity influence the way you treat others. Infect the community with positivity. Don't rely on systemic policing to quiet our voices. We are mature. We can handle ourselves.
community has had plenty of time to be mature and "handle ourselves". things aren't getting better, they're getting worse.

where would league be right now if riot hadn't implemented the tribunal?

are you one of those "give anarchy a chance" people?

change yourself is a nice message, unfortunately it does nothing to fix the actual problems with the community. it's like asking the nice old lady who bakes cupcakes for orphans to fix her own shortcomings to improve "the community" when the problem of rapists and thieves exists.