Howling Gale; Janna's Gameplay Issues

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Waygate

Junior Member

10-24-2009

For those of you who have not yet had the chance to try out Janna, her primary ability (Howling Gale) has several issues which cause counter intuitive play late game. The main issue is that the cooldown for the ability does not begin until the ability is released after being initiated by the primary spellcast. Couple that with the fact that AP is only factored in to the initial damage and not the increase that it receives via charging, and a serious problem develops. The long and short of it is that at high levels of AP, it simply becomes inefficient to charge the ability at all, from both a damage and a cc perspective, the ability is vastly superior if you just double tap it.

While this might be seen as acceptable to some, I believe that the inattention of others by not moving out of the way should be punished rather than rewarded. Hitting with a delayed attack is vastly more difficult than an instant one, and as such, all other delayed spells are more powerful than their counterparts. In fact, this is also true for skillshots, which Howling Gale also happens to be. Why then is Howling Gale in fact less powerful when charged (when cooldown is factored), than would otherwise be true?

On a different note, Eye of the storm, while a powerful ability, is flawed in that it only improves physical attacks while active. The fact of the matter is that this aspect is near irrelevant when you consider that it is only useful to a very small minority of heroes. When you factor out support, spellcasters, and tanks, all you have left to benefit are the physical dps heroes ie: carries. However, you must also discount a significant amount of that buff to physical melee damage dealers due to the increased amount of damage inevitably taken when in melee range.

I'm well aware that the point of only increasing physical damage was likely just to discourage Janna players from using it on themselves to increase damage, thus relegating them to a more support centered role, but frankly it just narrows down the potential applications of the ability at all.

Finally, I'd like to address the inconsistency with Janna's ultimate: Monsoon. The ability itself has the initial effect of knocking back nearby enemies, however this is more of a hindrance to the allied team in most situations. What it comes down to is that the knockback can only serve one of two purposes, setting someone up for a gank or attempting to run away. However, the primary purpose of the ability has always been to function as a healing spell. The problem with this is that neither ganking nor running away are in any way aided by you standing in place and channeling a heal. Ganks do not generally require healing, and standing still when running away is just stupid.

Alternately, the healing aspect of the spell is only useful in team battles. However, if one were to activate this ultimate during the battle, the knockback would serve either no purpose, or actually help the other team to run away.

The fact that you can only truely benefit from half of the ultimate at a time actually encourages good players to only use one aspect at a time, once again causing vastly counter intuitive gameplay. Intelligent people will for example, when running away, activate the ultimate just long enough for the knockback to take effect.

While I myself don't particularly care that these three abilities rarely are actually used the way they were intended, leaving them in this way honestly feels like bad design. Not to mention that all the abilities were clearly balanced with their secondary effects in mind. The fact that all of them are rarely useful has caused Janna to be relatively underpowered in comparison with other champions, and as a result vastly underplayed.



Suggestions:
-Add AP scaling to the charge effect for Howling Gale, even if it comes at a reduction from the scaling on the initial portion of the ability.
-Start the cooldown of Howling Gale the instant the ability is placed on the ground, not when it is moved, even if the cooldown of the ability is increased by the difference. (This will both make fix the above problem and make cd reduction items actually useful for Janna)
-Add an AP/CoolDown reduction component to the shield. If you would rather not have it useful for Janna, then merely don't have that portion work for her.
-Honesly I would just change the ultimate period. Maybe remove the healing component and have it instantly remove debuffs from your team and increase their movespeed/evasion. If not, maybe just strengthen one of the two components of the ability and entirely remove the other.


Sorry for the wall of text, but if you've read it all I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bregan

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-24-2009

howling gale: charging is good for longer distance and more damages EARLY GAME. if it works out better to just launch it right away late game, why do you have a problem? also having the charge time works for timing and settup purposes late game as well.

eye of the storm: the damage boost is merely a happy bonus, the main effect of this skill is DAMAGE SHIELD. dont forget, you can shield towers too. putting ap/cd on it would be bull**** and too much.

monsoon: if the enemy team is going to run, then chances are, you dont need to heal, so theres no need to use it. if they are chasing you guys and you need heals, it keeps them away long enough for heals to actually come through. how is this bad? learn when to use it. besides, both sides not dying is way better than them slaughtering you. honestly the only thing i would change about the ult is that on knockback it should actually damage the enemies. either a flat rate like singed's toss, or some kind of max/min damage depending on how close they were to you.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jaml

Senior Member

10-25-2009

The only problem with Howling gale is that it doesn´t start instantly. I dont understand why because there are way more powerful abilities that do not have a warmup time. Janna would be played more if she would have a reliable attack spell.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lollerman

Senior Member

10-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaml View Post
The only problem with Howling gale is that it doesn´t start instantly. I dont understand why because there are way more powerful abilities that do not have a warmup time. Janna would be played more if she would have a reliable attack spell.
Press the hot key again to release the gale?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

banduan

Senior Member

10-25-2009

This is much much better thought out than the other post.

Q) On howling gale:
I disagree that AP scaling should apply to charged damage. I think the reason people just spam instantly is because of the cooldown issue, which I absolutely concur on. Fixing the way the cool-down works should not only fix the fact that spamming is better than charging in late game, but also open up interesting consecutive-hit strategies.

W) Zephyr is fine

E) Eye of the storm is very hard to judge. It does feel to me like it should be two components, like Refraction on DotA's Templar Assassin. But it's kinda already nice if you pump AP. Needs a careful look.
Yes, it's almost pointless on a melee DPS'r and is probably made for Teemo and Twitch.

responding to Bregan: the damage boost is not a happy bonus, it's a key component of the skill. Without it it simply pales compared to Morgana's shield.

That said I'm ok with Eye for now.

R) Monsoon is just awful. As the original post states and the other thread does, it has two components which don't quite gel well. It seems tailor made for a specific situation: your team is ganked in you need to get out. Unfortunately, that's a pretty pathetic use for an ulti. And it's not even guaranteed to save you.

responding to Bregan: the use you stated it is for is fair enough, if it weren't for the fact that it has high mana cost and CD.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jaml

Senior Member

10-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollerman View Post
Press the hot key again to release the gale?

That works? If yes then maybe i should reevaluate the skill.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Waygate

Junior Member

10-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregan View Post
howling gale: charging is good for longer distance and more damages EARLY GAME. if it works out better to just launch it right away late game, why do you have a problem? also having the charge time works for timing and settup purposes late game as well.

eye of the storm: the damage boost is merely a happy bonus, the main effect of this skill is DAMAGE SHIELD. dont forget, you can shield towers too. putting ap/cd on it would be bull**** and too much.

monsoon: if the enemy team is going to run, then chances are, you dont need to heal, so theres no need to use it. if they are chasing you guys and you need heals, it keeps them away long enough for heals to actually come through. how is this bad? learn when to use it. besides, both sides not dying is way better than them slaughtering you. honestly the only thing i would change about the ult is that on knockback it should actually damage the enemies. either a flat rate like singed's toss, or some kind of max/min damage depending on how close they were to you.
-It's a problem because it is much harder to hit with a charged howling gale during the entirity of the game, not just in the beginning. By making the attack more powerful without charging late game you take out the reward for superior skill on your part, or lack thereof on theirs.

-It's hard to judge as the only analog in this game is Morgana's spell shield. Comparatively I don't think anyone would argue that Janna's is nearly as good, but I'm leary of making cross character comparisons. In the end what it comes down to is if the bonus is not overpowered for the characters it does effect, adding a component for those it doesn't (so long as it is equal in power) would not be overpowered either.

-That's far to rare of a use for a decent ultimate, especially considering the risk in using it. Add the high cost and long cool down and it's quite likely the weakest ultimate in the game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bregan

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-25-2009

the ult is extremely good at completely scrambling their whole team as well. its also good at getting in front of someone on their team and popping it to keep them from running away.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Atmosfear

Senior Member

10-25-2009

The Ulti is pretty good if you have flash. Its almost like having Singed's toss except you've just tossed their whole team by flashing in and using your ulti. Obviously there are some problems with the ulti and could use a buff IMO but it works.

As for howling gale, I think it is fine as is. It functions as a pseudo-stun as well as a very effective method for pushing and clearing away creeps. Janna is perhaps one of the best farming heroes out there.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DarkenDragon

Senior Member

10-25-2009

I think the ulti should either remove the fact that your stuck in place, what harm would it do if you can move and heal at the same time, that way, it'll become a good escape mechanic. cuz having to stay in one place while trying to get away just makes you a sacrafice for the other team to gobble up

another idea is to allow the knock back to pulse during the cast, this way your creating a barrier to heal your teammates and create a safe haven. I find that whenever I use this spell to escape, I only use it for the knock back because every time I use it, my allies are always running out of it cuz they are chasing after the heros that got knocked out to go kill them, or they're running away from the enemy which also means away from the healing radius.

as for howling gale, they might wanna split the AP increase in 2 such that a part of your ap will go to the inital damage, and apart of it goes to the charge up, so that when you do charge up you are doing a heavy hit, but when you want a instant burst of damage, you arent gimping yourself

currently its about 75% AP so maybe like 50% to base and 25% to charged or the other way around either one