Owning with Blitzcrank

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inFe eD

Senior Member

04-19-2012

I'm seeing something immediately wrong with your calculations already. Mid-lategame I'll have frozen + Veil + manamune, bumping my mana to 3k+. Manamune returns 80 damage at that point. Your mana estimations are woefully inadequate, because you're vastly understating the amount of mana I'll build in pretty much every Blitz game. Keep in mind that, barring one-sided pubstomps, lategame is ALWAYS the most important phase of Dominion, since it doesn't matter how much of an early lead you acquire if you can't hold 3 points consistently.

And, again, you must be doing something wrong, because I end up with a fully charged tear in 80% of my blitz games.


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Basoosh

Senior Member

04-19-2012

  • I think you should give Manamune a second shot. That enormous shield is amazing and raw +AD is basically exactly what you want with his AS steroid.
  • I run nearly a complete opposite skill order. Q has a massive cooldown - no matter if it is Rank 1 or Rank 5 you will probably only be able to use it once per fight. But E, a couple ranks in that skill go a long way, allowing you to pop someone up every couple of seconds. I rank up E first, with a little bit of W mixed in. W is maxed second. Q is treated as a one-point wonder skill and left until last.
  • The #1 Blitzcrank tip I've ever picked up is don't always try to land miracle max-range grabs as your initation strategy. You'd be really surprised how easy it is to just run people down with W's speed boost and then pop them up. Then, when they try to escape, land an easier short range grab. Miracle grabs from downtown are cool when they happen, but difficult to pull off and easy for experienced players to dodge.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

04-19-2012

Personally, I've been trying both builds on Dominion, with and without Manamune for awhile.

I hate starting with Tear, for nothing more than that first windmill fight. I'd rather have a ruby crystal and a sapphire for a bit more raw HP (since you eat up your base mana quickly with a full round of abilities, leaving you with little shield).

Without the Tear/Manamune I have my TF and Frozen Heart 2000g faster than if I grabbed Manamune.
While I'm tankier and have my CDR faster, I don't have that monstrous mana shield to bait with. It's still strong, but it's not a manamune shield.

I notice the following: Without manamune, I ramp up faster, but I have to be more cautious with how I play. The baiting tricks don't work as well, and if I get too cocky I'll die more often. With manamune, I can run in to a fight with little regard for my own safety, attract all the focus, get away with my massive mana shield, and my team cleans up. It's a better initiation tool. Either way - you CAN NOT be ignored. You WILL be focused, because Blitz can and will lock-down and kill a squishy.

Do you want to attract that focus KNOWING you can escape? Or do you want to rely on your teammates to protect you?

Speaking of Manamune, I think the key thing left out here is that once you upgrade, auto-attacks charge the tear as well.

@Bashoosh - Chasing + Knockup has been a far more reliable way to play for me as well. The grabs are easy to juke, but not when you're trying to escape from a horde of angry champions.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

04-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
I'm seeing something immediately wrong with your calculations already. Mid-lategame I'll have frozen + Veil + manamune, bumping my mana to 3k+. Manamune returns 80 damage at that point. Your mana estimations are woefully inadequate, because you're vastly understating the amount of mana I'll build in pretty much every Blitz game. Keep in mind that, barring one-sided pubstomps, lategame is ALWAYS the most important phase of Dominion, since it doesn't matter how much of an early lead you acquire if you can't hold 3 points consistently.

And, again, you must be doing something wrong, because I end up with a fully charged tear in 80% of my blitz games.
Woefully inadequate?

Blitz naturally gets 908 mana. Plus 500 from Frozen heart = 1400ish. Plus whatever he gets from his Tear.
You are telling me that you can get Manamune, boots, TriForce, Frozen Heart, AND Veil and still have time to dominate lategame?
Or you are saying that you skip Triforce completely and just go with boots,Heart,Manamune,Odins? (which is 8800g)

Ok, in that case, you can say Blitz goes from 300 to 1900 mana instead of 300 to 1500. Not really seeing the woefully inadequate part yet. I specifically said excluding tear so I could calculate its effect seperately... The shield effect from just the tear, and then analysis of the AD of manamune from the TOTAL mana pool.


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Makestro

Senior Member

04-19-2012

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Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
There's a difference between calling someone out constructively, and flaming them to stroke your ego.
Makes me laugh you of all people accusing someone of stroking their ego


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

04-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoosh View Post
[LIST][*]I think you should give Manamune a second shot. That enormous shield is amazing and raw +AD is basically exactly what you want with his AS steroid.
I can appreciate that advice. I DO go with a decent amount of AD. I get the Pros Blade, the TriForce and use a MAW instead of a Manamune.
As mathematically shown, it's simply more efficient than the manamune approach and has a few other nice advantages.

The enormous shield still exists, without tear. I wind up with 1500ish mana anyways eventually. Tear adds about 1000. I assume I am not playing against idiots who will be SHOCKED to see a big shield show up at 30% of my health...


----------

should have just presented the math and let people make their own decision whether to go with Tear/MM, or consider Hexdrinker/Maw instead. Manamune isn't BAD and I agree it does have better baiting potential vs scrubs. So I probably oversold my case, instead of just pointing out that MM isn't near as good as it is on SR and Hexdrinker is more cost effective. So fine...my bad.


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Makestro

Senior Member

04-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
I can appreciate that advice. I DO go with a decent amount of AD. I get the Pros Blade, the TriForce and use a MAW instead of a Manamune.
As mathematically shown, it's simply more efficient than the manamune approach and has a few other nice advantages.

The enormous shield still exists, without tear. I wind up with 1500ish mana anyways eventually. Tear adds about 1000. I assume I am not playing against idiots who will be SHOCKED to see a big shield show up at 30% of my health...
It's not about shocking them, it's about the fact it helps. Also every mana/tank item you get after you upgrade it to manamune adds more damage making that item worth more gold. It's about synergy, and manamune synergies not only with blitz's passive but the best tank items in the game...


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inFe eD

Senior Member

04-19-2012

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Originally Posted by Makestro View Post
Makes me laugh you of all people accusing someone of stroking their ego
xoxoxo

Tell realwolf I miss him. Seeing him in the chatroom always brightened my day. You're just not the same.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

04-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makestro View Post
It's not about shocking them, it's about the fact it helps. Also every mana/tank item you get after you upgrade it to manamune adds more damage making that item worth more gold. It's about synergy, and manamune synergies not only with blitz's passive but the best tank items in the game...
But we've seen the math. Synergy is great...IF it is cost effective. But in this case, the manamune approach just isn't as cost effective as a hexdrinker/maw path, and is less flexible.

In an average game, Blitz is only gonna get the Tear/MM, a Frozen Heart (500 mana), and either a triforce or an Odins. So he's still gonna max out at 3k mana. At that snapshot in time, manamune looks great. But I am looking at it from the entire game perspective.

Its the same logic as to why Rod of Ages isn't as good in Dominion. It has less time to build up and less time to take advantage of it building. And heck, it STARTS AT 80% efficiency which is pretty freaking good! Compared to tear/MM which starts way lower.

-----
I've backed off on my stance and if you want Manamune, fine. I'm simply showing that Hexdrinker/Maw is more efficient.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

04-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
In an average game, Blitz is only gonna get the Tear/MM, a Frozen Heart (500 mana), and either a triforce or an Odins.
... how short are your average games? 3 completed items in a full game, 1 of which is a 2k item? That only happens in stomps, which you should NOT be planning builds around. Like I said, lategame is the most important phase of Dominion.