Crit chance runes vs. armor pen runes.

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TheBestDD

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Senior Member

09-20-2010

Crit Damage owns both crit chance and armor pen


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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

09-20-2010

1: Don't use the leagecraft battle crafter for any serious discussion. It can be used as a quick gauge of potential, but does not take all factors into account. For example, it completely disregards armor pen and item abilities.

2: Crit chance will increase your damage, on average, by am amount equal to the crit chance 1%=1%. Armor pen will increase your damage up to your armor penetration. i.e. 100 Armor pen can increase your damage by up to 100%. As a nice rule of thumb, you can say it is half the value(though it will generally be more, this means you wont overestimate). It can actually be more at lower levels, but it isn't by any large amount so don't worry about it.

Armor pen marks give you more than twice as much armor pen as crit chance marks give you crit chance. Additionally, they will stack with the effect from your crit chance, meaning that because it is harder to itemize for armor pen they are better.

I hope this helped you understand why your friend is wrong.


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Theou Aegis

Senior Member

09-20-2010

Well for one thing you already start with crit chance, so saying "20% crit chance runes gives me a 20% chance to crit" is wrong. It gives you an additional 20% chance. I don't knwo what you start out with, but you already crit at least 10% I would say looking at how often I crit without runes.


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malphismia

Senior Member

09-20-2010

i think you should just stick with ArPen if you like calculated battles

but you get an autoattack once or twice, here and there, on the enemy champion during laning phase, so sustained average DPS doesn't matter much for laning phase

but for crit, i've had a lot of times where i have a lucky random crit, which turns a random autoattack poke into a "holy **** i took 1/4 of his health" and the lane turns in our favor. but its all luck when it comes to crit

just switch your runes when you're feeling lucky :P


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Automobile

Junior Member

09-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leirkov View Post
Me and my friend are debating this. I'm pretty sure crit has been mathcrafted to be worse than armor pen.

However he just showed me leagecraft battle theory where in theory, your DPS with crit chance is larger.

I need the advice here, which is better?

(if it makes a difference, discussing Tristana)
On the leaguecraft builder, the armor of your target isn't taken into consideration. Therefore, the damage it shows in the leaguecraft battle theory would be the same with armor penetration and without armor penetration.


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Dreamy Ray Flex

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
they took base crit chance out a while ago. You can start with 2% crit from the offense tree, and another 8% crit from the brawler's gloves (or 15% from a green elixir). So, if you're going for a crit start (full rune page, glove/elixir, and mastery) you have between 30% and 37% chance to crit and 6 armor pen. If you replace the crit marks and quints with armor pen, you still have between 16% and 23% chance to crit with 35 armor pen.
8+2=16?


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Oerwoud

Senior Member

09-21-2010

RNG is great:
Lets say someone with armour pen harrasses me to half hp. He tries to gank, then I always have for example 4 or 5 more hits to live. Which allows me to get away in allot of cases.
Lets say he has crit chance. He tries to gank me at half hp. 3 things can happen.
1: he is unlucky, his crits dont proc as often as it should. You escape safely with less damage compared to armour pen.
2: he gets normal crits, you either escape with little hp (1 crit counts as 2 hit, but since overall damage is less) or average out just as in armour pen case.
3: he is lucky, he crits 2 or 3 times out of his 5 attacks instead of the usuall one. I die surprisingly fast and call HAXXX all out in global chat.

First of all, armour pen gives less surprising kills, meaning if they play smart/defensive you only get them through sheer pressure (ending in an earlier bluepill then normal).
Crit chance, though not always, allows to get that unexpected gank. During laning phase you might have 2 or 3 opportunities like that, so the chance of lucky scenario 3 isnt that small.

Finally, because there is a risk of scenario 3, you're not willing to duke it out. Because allthough you could fend it off in 2 out of 3 scenario's (opponent running because your armour pen does higher damage), your not trying cause the crit could bust you up.

I play armour pen, because I believe in averages and real numbers. And armour pen and crit dont have the same average (so even if rng was ruled out and crit would happen every 10th hit, then still armour pen does more). But rng in crit makes it interesting.


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Kungfengshui

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Member

09-21-2010

There's also something to be said for the impact of just having high crit on the opponents' play style and mental calculations. They cannot rely on escaping as consistently when things go bad, ensuring they live to get off their ult, etc.


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Saybel

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Senior Member

09-21-2010

It depends on how much armor pen you have and how much armor they have but a MAJORITY of the time armor pen is the way to go if u get the right runes for it and gear for it in game. Crit can be very effective with champions like trynd and gangplank but in a majority of the situations your gonna want armor pen. mathematicly speaking it has a higher damage output in MOST situations if you get a good amount of it.


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malphismia

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerwoud View Post
RNG is great:
Lets say someone with armour pen harrasses me to half hp. He tries to gank, then I always have for example 4 or 5 more hits to live. Which allows me to get away in allot of cases.
Lets say he has crit chance. He tries to gank me at half hp. 3 things can happen.
1: he is unlucky, his crits dont proc as often as it should. You escape safely with less damage compared to armour pen.
2: he gets normal crits, you either escape with little hp (1 crit counts as 2 hit, but since overall damage is less) or average out just as in armour pen case.
3: he is lucky, he crits 2 or 3 times out of his 5 attacks instead of the usuall one. I die surprisingly fast and call HAXXX all out in global chat.

First of all, armour pen gives less surprising kills, meaning if they play smart/defensive you only get them through sheer pressure (ending in an earlier bluepill then normal).
Crit chance, though not always, allows to get that unexpected gank. During laning phase you might have 2 or 3 opportunities like that, so the chance of lucky scenario 3 isnt that small.

Finally, because there is a risk of scenario 3, you're not willing to duke it out. Because allthough you could fend it off in 2 out of 3 scenario's (opponent running because your armour pen does higher damage), your not trying cause the crit could bust you up.

I play armour pen, because I believe in averages and real numbers. And armour pen and crit dont have the same average (so even if rng was ruled out and crit would happen every 10th hit, then still armour pen does more). But rng in crit makes it interesting.
This. What i tried to say, but more eloquently put :P


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