Crit chance runes vs. armor pen runes.

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Leirkov

Senior Member

08-07-2010

Me and my friend are debating this. I'm pretty sure crit has been mathcrafted to be worse than armor pen.

However he just showed me leagecraft battle theory where in theory, your DPS with crit chance is larger.

I need the advice here, which is better?

(if it makes a difference, discussing Tristana)


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Leirkov

Senior Member

08-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
armor penetration's effectiveness depends on the target's armor values. so, armor pen is greater by a larger margin when it penetrates to zero (assuming no waste) and by a lesser margin at level 18.

if i could search, i'd show you the math showing several cases (i did this recently for a twitch thread), but effectively it takes more crit than you can start with to be better than armor pen.

now, that's if crit is calculated as a damage increase, so in an actual match you could end up not getting a crit in 10 attacks even if you have 20%, or getting 3 in a row. it's an RNG stat, so it's always worse in my opinion to count on it. going with armor pen let's you plan better for ganks and team fights.

long story short, go for armor pen runes, and build armor pen early (i.e. brutalizer, youmuu's, and/or black cleaver/stark's based on teams).
I do, but he's trying to convince me that Crit is better than Armor pen, while I'm trying to make the argument that overall, ArPen > Crit


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Leonardo da Vinci

Senior Member

08-07-2010

crit is end game armor pen is early game.


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Judah the Lion

Senior Member

08-07-2010

I use crit % more frequently now, but ArmPen are fine if you're less debonair and brave.


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Chillspawn

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Senior Member

08-07-2010

It depends on so many things, I for one prefer Armor Pen over Crit chance but sometimes on Trist I'll go crit chance and have some fun, because I just harass by hitting once, using E and run away. Once you get a crit, that little burst of damage basicly means its time to jump on your target to finish him off..


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JurrJurrBizzle

Member

09-20-2010

it seems to me like armor pen would be better, only because.....a crit is a multiplier that isn't quite reliable unless you actually have a decent damage output to multiply. Armor pen applies to all basic attacks crit or not crit.

if you look at it mathematically, if you have 15 crit chance from runes.....you have 15% chance to for your attack to do 200% damage. if you have 30 armor pen and like...7 crit chance. You have 100% chance for your attack to do 30% more damage than it would have done, and 7% chance for it to do 230%


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Darth Sanshiro

Junior Member

09-20-2010

Yes arpen will get you better dps in general, but it's also worth noting that armor pen is less likely to get you kills in a pinch. Of course crit isn't reliable, but that's the point. If you are predicting that you're going to win a fight based on reliable damage, your opponent should be as well. Adding reliability (but not too much) to your crits takes away some of your opponents ability to gauge your damage.

Of course usually when this is an issue I'm playing characters that go on reliably high crit (trynd/gangplank), and I just grab last whisper at some point so arpen isn't an issue.


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Sir Prize

Senior Member

09-20-2010

It'll depend on the Champion you're playing too. GP needs crit; Ashe doesn't so much.


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Gallahan

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Senior Member

09-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo da Vinci View Post
crit is end game armor pen is early game.
I this it's backwards, early game you want crit to actually hit higher while they have less armor. Late game, when armor is built up, you actually use the Arm pen more effectively imo.


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AdricGod

Senior Member

09-20-2010

This sounds very similar to the dodge/health/armor discussion. You cannot enter crit % into a DPS calculator and say OH, ArP is better. It depends on what champion you play. Do you use hit and run tactics? Crit % may be better. Do you have a snare built into the champion allowing you to stay in range for more hits? ArP may be better.

If you just want to compare cost benefits of runes versus items then ArP and attack speed wins that comparison. For tristana I would say both ArP and Crit are important, however Tristana is a decent farmer and getting early kills isn't that important for her, so I would say ArP for Trist.


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