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@Riot: Nautilus W DoT has the same problem as Teemo's DoT

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Skelenaut

Member

04-07-2012

Teemo's DoT is getting fixed this patch, the problem being a damage loss if Teemo's attack speed went above 1 second. Nautilus' DoT experiences the same problem.

Since the damage from the DoT is applied in the space of a second after connecting with the target (let's say 75 damage on hit and another tick for 75 in the next second), if his attack speed goes above 1 second the second portion of his DoT does not apply, resulting in a loss of DPS.

Just thought someone should know!


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Ruahi

Senior Member

04-07-2012

teemos poison applies dot for a few seconds. it didnt activate on the hit it took a second for it to apply poison dmg and if teemo attacked before that second was up then the dot was reapplied and the timer was reset

nauts damage tick is set the moment he swings causing his dot to immediatly apply and then take a second to apply again. this means that even if he attacks again before that 1 second for his next damage tick he still applies a dmg tick when he attacks meaning that with increased attack speed he actually ups his potential dps with this ability something that teemo will get to do after this next patch


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

04-07-2012

I can safely say as a pummeled Gangplank that the dot ticks quite well and hurts pretty badly, thank you very much.


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Skelenaut

Member

04-07-2012

Unfortunately that's not the case Ruahi. Everything I've read on the subject states that Naut experiences a loss in DPS if his swing speed goes ABOVE 1 second.

Post by "Phyvo" (http://*******/lrzmd) (little over halfway down the page):

Quote:
Naut W DPS really wonky and the tooltip actually misrepresents it. It says that it's 150 magic damage over 2 seconds which implies that your AS doesn't matter at all. But that's not true.

How W really works is that it's a 2 tick DoT except that the tick 1 procs on your attack and the tick 2 procs 1 second later. If you attack again before the second tick hits it is canceled and the DoT starts over again at tick 1. So at AS > 1 you will always get tick 1 but never tick 2. At these speeds Naut W functions like Cho's vorpal spikes. Your AS does matter.

But what if your AS is under 1? Because you're not interrupting tick 2 each of your autos will *always* proc 2 ticks. Which means that if your AS is under 1 you've got yourself a free 150 magic damage steroid. If you could just bump yourself to 0.999 AS you could be doing 300 magic damage over 2 seconds instead of the measly 150 the tooltip implies (or the 200 you'd do with no items at all). What's a good DPS/tank item that would do that for you?


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Skelenaut

Member

04-07-2012

Was kind of hoping for a larger discussion on this... Oh well.


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Ruahi

Senior Member

04-08-2012

either way naut has his proc on the hit thus he does not have the deficiency of teemo where it didnt proc except after 1 second after the attack making it that if you attacked before that second was up it would reset the procs timer

so while yes i will admit that attacking just under 1 second is a good dps thing for naut the thing is that if he attacks more than 2 times a second he actualy gains dmg which is what i mean that naut doesnt really lose anything if he builds attack speed unlike teemo

teemo will have this problem until the patch and naut never had this problem


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alohabroha

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Quote:
Ruahi:
either way naut has his proc on the hit thus he does not have the deficiency of teemo where it didnt proc except after 1 second after the attack making it that if you attacked before that second was up it would reset the procs timer

so while yes i will admit that attacking just under 1 second is a good dps thing for naut the thing is that if he attacks more than 2 times a second he actualy gains dmg which is what i mean that naut doesnt really lose anything if he builds attack speed unlike teemo

teemo will have this problem until the patch and naut never had this problem


Technically it would still be a problem if you should be doing twice as much DoT damage from each AA. Say you hit 4 times and you are attacking more than once per second.

You're only getting half your DoT damage on 3 of those attacks and the full DoT on the 4th.

Full DoT on 4 aa = 150*4 = 600
3 half DoT + 1 full DoT on 4 aa = 75*3 = 225+150*1=375 total

You're getting robbed of 225 damage because of the bug. Not exactly like Teemos bug, but still needs fixing like Teemo's did.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Quote:
Ruahi:
teemos poison applies dot for a few seconds. it didnt activate on the hit it took a second for it to apply poison dmg and if teemo attacked before that second was up then the dot was reapplied and the timer was reset

nauts damage tick is set the moment he swings causing his dot to immediatly apply and then take a second to apply again. this means that even if he attacks again before that 1 second for his next damage tick he still applies a dmg tick when he attacks meaning that with increased attack speed he actually ups his potential dps with this ability something that teemo will get to do after this next patch


No you are wrong. In fact in the teemo change thread riot stated that teemo applies damage on hit.

The OP is right. Naut needs the change too.


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ChthonicOne

Junior Member

04-08-2012

Honestly, I think for clarity's sake, all spammable DoT effects should do damage a regular intervals regardless of when it was last refreshed.

An example of how this would work with 1.5 attacks a second:
0.00 You hit the enemy to apply the DoT, it does 75 damage and applies a 1 second timer.
0.67 You hit the enemy again. DoT is refreshed to 1 second. Initial damage of 75 is reapplied.
1.00 DoT ticks for 75 damage, .67 seconds remain.
1.33 You hit the enemy. Initial damage of 75 is reapplied, and DoT is refreshed to 1 second.
2.00 DoT ticks for 75 damage, .33 seconds remain. You hit the enemy and deal the initial 75 damage again, refreshing the DoT to 1 second.
2.67 You hit the enemy again refreshing the DoT to 1 second again. Deal another 75 damage. Enemy gets away.
3.00 DoT ticks for 75 damage, .67 seconds remain.
3.67 DoT expires. Partial tick is calculated at .67 * 75 or 50 more damage.

Whether or not the DoT does initial damage or not should depend on the whims of the developer and play balance. This would also influence how useful attack speed would be for certain heroes.


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Numbat

Senior Member

04-10-2012

Quote:
Afrasabi:
Unfortunately that's not the case Ruahi. Everything I've read on the subject states that Naut experiences a loss in DPS if his swing speed goes ABOVE 1 second.

Post by "Phyvo" (http://*******/lrzmd) (little over halfway down the page):


ooo, you quoted me.

Anyways, don't worry. On PBE Nautilus has been ported to Teemo's mechanic. You always apply the first tick on hit and the second tick is properly refreshed by attacks, so you don't lose DPS when you hit 1.0 AS.

We can't know for sure if they'll incorporate the fix into this patch but AFAIK there's no hidden bugs with it on the PBE so it shouldn't be too long.


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