Wit's end vs Diffusal blade (DotA)

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Sagas

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Adjudicator

08-09-2010

If you consider the mana burn to be a side effect, you'll have a better appreciation for the item. Frankly, in LoL, you're really never going to be able to mana-burn someone to zero mana. However, if instead you think of Wit's End as being +6 MR and +42 damage for 700g (the combine costs), that's a pretty great deal. No, it doesn't crit, so there is less synergy with that +42 damage. So, again, a situational item- if you are playing an autoattack/AS champ, and the other team has all mana users, most of whom are doing magic damage, it can be good.


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JayceJa

Senior Member

08-10-2010

if your looking at the mana removal as a side effect, last whisper often out performs wits end offensively unless you have low AD early game
last whisper is also cheaper, and like sagas mentioned, benefits more with future damage and crit items, while last whisper does not

so yea, wit's end is still good because of the MR on it, but unless you really need the MR its not worth it


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

08-10-2010

I keep hearing that this item needs a flat mana burn? im sorry but I think you have this all confused, it is a flat mana burn, it does take off 40 mana and does 2 times the damage of how much mana was burn

the reason it says upto is cuz if they have less than 40 mana, then they only do 2 times the damage of what ever they had left, like if they only had 20 mana, its not gonna remove 40 mana, its only gonna remove 20 mana, and it'll do 40 damage and not 80 damage

thats the whole reason for the "upto" portion

edit: my bad I was thinking of kass' ability, about the whole 2 times damage, but the concept still holds that the whole "upto" is just for the fact that if they have less than the amount said, it'll only do the damage of whatever was removed, you cant remove more mana than the target has


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Kashaku

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Senior Member

08-10-2010

I thought I read somewere that Wit's End's unique passive is NOT true damage, thus that mres still applies (it was mres right?).

In other words, that the damage is often less than 25 damage.


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Fleetfeet

Senior Member

08-10-2010

DotA also put a lot more emphasis on physical attacks for pretty much all champs, if I'm not mistaken.

And, as mentioned diffusal blade's active was fantastic (go purge go!)

The problems LoL has with it (aside from the mentioned situationalness of it) is that:

- Dead enemies cast less. Most champions have ~2k hp and 1.2k MP at 18. 80 attack damage means it's going to take you 17 attacks to kill 'em, in which time you'll have burned 714 mana, leaving them with around 500 mana to use whatever skills they had to, if they haven't already. This assumes a lot (such as them starting at 400 mana, meaning you get them to OOM, at which point you... YAAY... do less damage. Gratz) (Or them being a tank with high armour or MR, both significantly decreasing your damage and increasing your chances of OOMing them before death... though it's still going to take you 20+ attacks to do so.)

Compare, then, to last whisper, which adds a constant 10 damage (compared to a conditional 42), the same attack speed bonus, and a 40% armour pen. Dead enemies > OOM enemies.

- Most champions have +mana. Try send an anivia OOM with an AA staff, or someone with chalice and some base MP regen. Once again, it's very likely going to be faster to kill them than force them to OOM or close to it, which means your 700g combine cost would have better been spent on more +AS, CRIT, or AD. Or Arpen.


Things that would fix it (individual ideas, not all at once) :
- Add an active, such as a 0.5s silence or a flat mana burn around 300-500 on a 60s cooldown.
- Make it stackable and cheaper.
- Have it do MORE damage if your target is OOM (64 base mana burn, 50% of burned mana damages, double damage if OOM. Non-mana champs always hit as if they have mana (32 magic dmg))
- Add a unique passive that attributes a mini silence upon every 6th attack, much like kennen, TF, and Yi's abilities of the same nature.


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Penguinbotxl

Member

11-05-2011

Wit's end shouldn't burn mana its already worth its 2k gold overall. Instead i suggest putting another item that would be similar to diffusal blade, and this time is not upgradable rather it burns 20-40 mana and deals it out as pure damage, like anti mage does


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Yfrappefort

Senior Member

11-05-2011

Btw, this thread is old (2010 if you didn't notice), it was before the Wit's End remake. They changed the mana burn to a stackable magic resist gain per hit (wich is much better). Should close this.


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