Wit's end vs Diffusal blade (DotA)

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Hugorgy

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Member

08-06-2010

Why isnt Wit's End a crucial item as it is his counterpart in DotA (diffusal blade)?

I think its because the amounts of mana of each game are very different. Both item burn almost the same mana (40 per hit), but in DotA 40 mana points represent 5-10% of your total mana pool, and the skill's cost in DotA are higher so they really hurt.
On the other hand, in LoL you dont notice 40 mana points, because u have tons of mana and most of the skills are cheap (except from pantheon with his high cost ult and combi, and a few others)

so what do u think? should wits end burn more mana, but keep the damage and bonuses the same??


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JayceJa

Senior Member

08-07-2010

uhh, 40 mana is a lot less in dota than it is in LoL unless your one of the very low mana heroes in dota

diffusal is better in dota because it has a great active slow and better stats(both AS and AD for agi heroes)


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Hugorgy

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08-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayceJa View Post
uhh, 40 mana is a lot less in dota than it is in LoL unless your one of the very low mana heroes in dota
No. In Dota the mana is really restrictive, you only can use ur skill 2 or 3 times in the lane phase. Also most heroes in DotA have just enough mana, so the lose hurts them.

Have you played dota?


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Nhan Fiction

Senior Member

08-07-2010

The real problem with Wit's End is how the item CAN burn up to 40+ Mana, whereas DotA's Diffusal Blade burns at a flat amount that is practical for the game. Wit's End should do a minimum of 40+ Mana burn with a maximum cap between 60 and 70. The current item is truly on the weak side.


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Sagas

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Adjudicator

08-07-2010

Wit's End is very situation in LoL. You need to have the other team be all mana-users (unlikely). You need to have most of the other team doing mostly magic damage (sometimes). You need to be an autoattack-centric champion who isn't getting their AS from somewhere else.

If all those things are true, Wit's End is pretty strong. Since they generally aren't, it is usually pretty weak.

Also, as mentioned earlier, the activate on diffusal was great.


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Slowdown

Senior Member

08-07-2010

Wirds need AS and best to be caped at 2,5 atk/s. And even then it's just good against low mana user like Tanks or carries like TF, Ez who don't stack mana.
A working combination is Wirds+LW+Stark+Modrets+ another AS item.

But it lost alot since all the new heros came without mana (Shen, Mord, Akali, Vlad,...).


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JayceJa

Senior Member

08-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugorgy View Post
No. In Dota the mana is really restrictive, you only can use ur skill 2 or 3 times in the lane phase. Also most heroes in DotA have just enough mana, so the lose hurts them.

Have you played dota?
when do you ever have a diffusal blade or wits end in a lane ever?

LoL is less restrictive on mana early when a wits end is in the shop rather than on a champion, but dota late game has less restriction on mana on most heroes


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NukedWhale

Senior Member

08-08-2010

The item is decent in a few situations, but overall I would say it needs a buff or a rework.

I'm thinking a buff would involve a flat mana burn rate plus a small amount per character level.

A rework could add an active mana burn spell.


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Achendach

Member

08-08-2010

please let me refresh everyone memory.
Diffusal blade was a good item that provided good agi bonus. on top of that, it gives mana burn, and a slow that is is the total opposite of nasus's slow being capable of removing buffs plus it has a fast CD for being a charged item. the fact that it slows so much and that it can remove crucial buffs from heros like GA from omniknight or Hunger from Broodmother. AND there was more image heros that can utilize mana burn effectively (lancer, Siren etc.)
oh and as a added bonus, it is upgradable and gives even more burn, more agi, and the abality to create images which in turn, burn more mana.

i believe this is the main reason why manta style and diffisual was consider a good item


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Nhan Fiction

Senior Member

08-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagas View Post
Wit's End is very situation in LoL. You need to have the other team be all mana-users (unlikely). You need to have most of the other team doing mostly magic damage (sometimes). You need to be an autoattack-centric champion who isn't getting their AS from somewhere else.

If all those things are true, Wit's End is pretty strong. Since they generally aren't, it is usually pretty weak.

Also, as mentioned earlier, the activate on diffusal was great.
Even when your champ is attacking pretty fast, Wit's End's mana burning can still be pretty weak. Even if Wit's End hacked away 40 mana every hit, it would still be too low in regards to LoL's much bigger mana pools. The mana burn needs to be higher.


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