Ghraath, The Fury of the Void

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GjommyFuFu

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by dukevonart View Post
Void Refuge (Innate)

--> This seems reasonable, I have no complaints about it.

Ruthless Howl (Q)

--> In general, this also seems reasonably balanced around providing some cc, but limiting the burst damage from the activation of this abililty.

--> The scaling on the bonus damage annoys me because it isn't linear, it goes +10/+20/+20/+20/+20, minor really.

--> I feel that the damage from this ability is too high, most abilities like this seem to cap out at ~60 damage. (When looking at their initial on-hit damage, DoT damage can be higher.)

--> The scaling matches up with standard scaling for these abilites, with 0.2 AP being comparable to 0.4 AD.

--> Does the passive continue to trigger while the skill is activated? Whether it is or isn't should be kept in mind when balancing the burst/sustained damage of this character.

--> What type of damage does this do? I'm assuming it deals on-hit bonus magic damage.

Void Entrapment (W)

--> A blink with a damage on arrival component is probably sufficient for this skill, especially as this can be used jump walls, etc.

--> a.k.a. I don't feel you need the bonus damage on the next attack/ability from an enemy champion.

--> If you do take away the % damage increase on arrival, it might be fitting to increase the base damage of the ability somewhat

Frenzied Bloodlust (E)

--> This is better than what you think it is, especially the movement speed component, as its a free ghost that at max level has a higher duration than ghost and can be on almost constantly, it also gives an attack speed bonus and a slow.

--> If you want to keep this ability, you might make it something like this:

Proposed Frenzied Bloodlust (E)

--> Active: grants 10/15/20/25/30% increased attack speed and 5/7.5/10/12.5/15% movement speed for 5/6/7/8/9 seconds.

--> CD: 24/21/18/15/12 seconds

--> Mana Cost: 40/45/50/55/60

Exiled Terror // Terror of the Void (R)

--> The stun on this ability makes it much too powerful, as just having an AoE stun is a good ultimate, especially with a 2 second stun at max level, its like a on demand Kennen ultimate. A possibility could be to drop the stun duration to something like 0.75/1/1.25 seconds.

--> The stealth duration seems too long, you might drop it down to 5/7/9 seconds, as this should be sufficient time to get close to a target or to escape.

General Thoughts

--> Void Entrapment in combination with Exiled Terror makes this character ridiculously hard to gank or pin down.

--> In its current state, this character has enough cc, specifically AoE cc, that they could probably build tank very effectively.

--> Other build variants for this character probably fall under tanky dps (ninja tabi, wriggles, wits end, frozen mallet, force of nature, randuins omen?) or just melee AD honestly.


Take what i say with a grain of salt, and please don't just copy paste stuff without thinking about how it fits your character. Nice champion, thanks for the read.
I'm going to answer your questions and critiques in reverse order.
First off, I'm not sure what you're referring to by "copy paste stuff". That just doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps you could clarify?

I agree with your statement on his build. He could be built like a glass cannon, or he could be more of an off-tank/DPS role (and would be able to pull if off easily). Being hard to gank isn't always a bad thing, or something to be considered "OP". Look at Shaco. (I know that's a very vague example, but..) Shaco is almost near impossible to gank because of his Deceive. Same goes with Wukong's Decoy. Anyways, my point being is that it's not TOO OP to have a hard gank in lane.

With the ult, and any ability really, I'm still in the "tinkering" phase. Everything is subject to change, and I will gladly accept any good ideas to make it more balanced.
First off, the ult. The stun is a little too long, as you stated, so I'm going to drop it down to when max level, will stun for 1.5 seconds. The stealth, could also be lowered, but keep in mind Eve and Twitch. Their stealth lasts 50 seconds when maxed. I'm not saying that my ability isn't OP, (because it really is) but it's just something to put into consideration. Mind you, I would LOVE to gank with the ult. Stealth from the bush, walk up in lane and BAM! Burst him down.

Second on the list.. The E. That skill, by far, is the most over powered skill in his kit. I am finding a hard time trying to balance it without making it below sub-par/useless. It'll take some time, and your idea seems to be fairly fair.

The W makes sense as well.. I see no problem with that change. I will most likely up the damage very subtly and maybe make the scaling a tad better, but lose the added effect.

For the Q, first off, yes. It does deal on-hit bonus magic damage. And like I have said numerous times in this response.. It's all open for fixing. I'm sorry that the damage scaling isn't linear, but I want to give it that little extra boost from leveling it up to that second level for the extra damage. Take Urgot's Q for example. (Acid Hunter). The damage when it's level 1 is far too weak, and not worth the cost to harass with it until it's level 2.
Is there any sort of fix you would recommend for the Q to be made more balanced?


Other than that (If I missed anything, PLEASE let me know. I'm tired.. and this took a lot of effort to reply to. xD) do you have any questions?


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GjommyFuFu

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreJ6 View Post
Like I said on my own thread. Maybe you should make the passive go up every level to keep it more balanced?


Check out my own champion idea @: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...2104631&page=2
I think that it's fair enough to be leveled up only twice. Just like everyone else's passive... But I mean, if more people think so, I gladly will.


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GjommyFuFu

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnTheBasics View Post
Man I really like it, I would love to collaborate with you, if you would like to, add my skype: TheOriginalBaNE
Thanks man.
I sent in a request, from GjomGD.
And yeah, I'm always down for brainstorming with other people. It's how good champions can be made.


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GjommyFuFu

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatypusFang View Post
So he has a flash on 9 second cooldown, and a free randuins that also buffs AS and his movement speed like Shurelyas, definitely not ok with that. Make the W target enemy champions only like Pantheons W so its an initiation only. Otherwise your talking about a flash every 5.4 seconds with 40% cdr or 7.2 with just 20%. Taking into account a few items with active effects you could combo without fear of any retaliation and flash(W) out completely unscathed with Hourglass or just build Randuins in addition to your E for even more counter AD. In other words with just 1 or 2 defensive items you are far too tanky, If you use your skills/items correctly your opponents only have about 1.5 seconds to kill you before you can flash away with W. In my mind Assassins are meant to be glass cannons unless you specifically build them quite tanky, like nocturne with FM and atmas.
Think of the "flash" as Talon's E, Cutthroat. It's on the same principle, but mix it in with Shen's taunt. It's a very simple blink with an added effect. I'm taking away the additional effect, and increasing the damage, so it'll be more balanced.

Everything is subject to change, and I think I'm going to be raising the cooldowns on a couple of the skills and tweaking damage/scaling etc. So, tell me what you think after I change it around a little.


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GjommyFuFu

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berel Ironstaff View Post
Ok may I first say great champion, love him. Second you are doing a great job with feed back. Lastly how close did you read Nocture's lore? Nocturne never slaughtered an entire village it does say "He slaughtered everything he could find before summoners were able to magically confine him," but it also says "League experts divined that Nocturne hunted summoners in their sleep, attacking them in a place where their magic was useless. This seemed to be his only purpose," this would cause some conflicts with your lore since it does not match up seeing as he only wanted to kill summoners, unless it was a village of summoners? lol... but hey maybe /i am just over analizing and reading into it.
I guess I should mention that yes, it was a village of summoners. Ghraath included. I'll edit the lore to PERSONALLY please you, kind summoner.


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PhysmRosmay

Senior Member

05-10-2012

great job, well thought out and great interactions. Hope riot gives this some attention.


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GjommyFuFu

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhysmRosmay View Post
great job, well thought out and great interactions. Hope riot gives this some attention.
Thanks. I hope so too.


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dukevonart

Senior Member

05-10-2012

--> The copy paste comment was made mostly because I had an experience in which i suggested a few changes, and they got copy pasted into the champion, while i don't mind that too much, I'd like people to ask a few more questions before they do that, to understand why i suggested what i did.

--> Being hard to gank is fine really, i just wanted to bring up the point that this could become a possible issue, and as you stated, all the abilities may change, so i was just hoping to keep this in mind.

--> I'm a little unsure of how to treat long term stealth with no precedent provided through the stealth remake that hasn't happened yet, but the ultimate falls into the weird place between the permanent stealth characters (twitch and eve) and short duration stealth characters (wukong, shaco, etc). That said, i'm thinking that this ultimate could work well without long duration of stealth.

--> As an assassin character it seems strange to have a stun on an ability before you stealth, seeming to indicate that the ability is used as an escape tool after a fight, rather than a long duration stealth that ends with a stun that would indicate its use as initiation.

--> Mostly what i want to be careful about with the E is the movement speed, especially on such a long duration. Attack speed is not so worry some, but again, be careful with the giving of built in steroids. This skill in combination with the ultimate and blink would make for an extremely good split pusher that had excellent escapes and survival.

--> A weak early damage ability at level one is fairly typical, like Urgot's Q, most abilities don't deal much damage with only a single point in them, Sona's Q only deals 50 damage to up to two targets at level one. This minimal damage at level 1 is probably designed to limit the burst of such characters between levels 1 to 3 after which damage may increase rapidly dependent on skill order.

--> Linear scaling is useful in a couple of ways, as it provided a sort of passive understanding of what leveling a particular ability does. In addition, it will leave open more possible skilling orders due to not having an obvious boost to take at a particular level.

Thanks for responding, I'll try and keep track of this thread and respond to changes when/if i notice them XD.


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Terratr0n

Senior Member

05-10-2012

All around good champion. Of course there are a few issues here and there as well as good ideas.

The passive ability doesn't seem fit for an assasin type character, even though he is melee. The reason being that assasin characters usually fit the dps role, and not the fighter/bruiser type role, where defensive traits prosper in battle. Again, it can be changed but it is your champion.
The Q abilities silence fits the glove when talking about assasin skills... but dat AD...seriously, throw a phantom dancer and ionic spark on this guy and well, **** me, u get it.
The W is a nice escape/farming tool, kinda reminds me of a Renekton flash-Q.
Combining E with his Q makes a badass assasin synergy, but that MS should be removed, because of the slow. Just a little imbalanced no?
His ultimate, similar to Talons, makes escaping seem waaaay to easy. Yes he is fragile as are all assasin type champions, requireing them to build tanky, but using this to justify the length of time he spends stealthed seems a tad OP. Not saying scrap the Ulti, seeing how it is very assasin like, just a little too much icing on the cake you know?
The artwork is enjoyable, almost as good as mine! :P

Again, overall great assasin kit that can be refined to likeness.
Review for Review? Here's my void associated support champ!
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2111527


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GjommyFuFu

Senior Member

05-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by dukevonart View Post
--> The copy paste comment was made mostly because I had an experience in which i suggested a few changes, and they got copy pasted into the champion, while i don't mind that too much, I'd like people to ask a few more questions before they do that, to understand why i suggested what i did.

--> Being hard to gank is fine really, i just wanted to bring up the point that this could become a possible issue, and as you stated, all the abilities may change, so i was just hoping to keep this in mind.

--> I'm a little unsure of how to treat long term stealth with no precedent provided through the stealth remake that hasn't happened yet, but the ultimate falls into the weird place between the permanent stealth characters (twitch and eve) and short duration stealth characters (wukong, shaco, etc). That said, i'm thinking that this ultimate could work well without long duration of stealth.

--> As an assassin character it seems strange to have a stun on an ability before you stealth, seeming to indicate that the ability is used as an escape tool after a fight, rather than a long duration stealth that ends with a stun that would indicate its use as initiation.

--> Mostly what i want to be careful about with the E is the movement speed, especially on such a long duration. Attack speed is not so worry some, but again, be careful with the giving of built in steroids. This skill in combination with the ultimate and blink would make for an extremely good split pusher that had excellent escapes and survival.

--> A weak early damage ability at level one is fairly typical, like Urgot's Q, most abilities don't deal much damage with only a single point in them, Sona's Q only deals 50 damage to up to two targets at level one. This minimal damage at level 1 is probably designed to limit the burst of such characters between levels 1 to 3 after which damage may increase rapidly dependent on skill order.

--> Linear scaling is useful in a couple of ways, as it provided a sort of passive understanding of what leveling a particular ability does. In addition, it will leave open more possible skilling orders due to not having an obvious boost to take at a particular level.

Thanks for responding, I'll try and keep track of this thread and respond to changes when/if i notice them XD.
Well, after you had posted, I tweaked everything ever so slightly. Maybe take another look. Tell me what you think about the minor changes.

I think they're a little bit better, and suit the point of being more "fair"