Cho vs. Garren

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Crankdawg

Member

01-27-2012

Ok, so recently I was playing solo top with Cho against a Garren and it went horribly wrong. Ended up dying to him twice before his first B and it was all down hill from there. tried to twr hug but that didn't help for very long.

The question:

Are there any Cho players out there with tips for this particular match-up? does cho inherently lose to garren top? constructive advice is appreciated. I understand that I was most likely just out-played/doing it wrong.

Any general tips for playing Cho solo top are also appreciated since I'm aware that I probably don't know everything there is to know.

Thanks


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FaerellG

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Well, your initial scenario doesn't give us much information to go on.

Can you explain how you were dying and what sorts of problems you were having trouble with?

Like...were you able to reliably land your Q? That's a big one. How was he catching you with so much damage?


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DoctorGentleman

Member

01-27-2012

Garen is my worst nightmare when I play as Cho. Garen and Riven are both really hard to deal with because even if you land your rupture, they are going to be able to outdamage you. I tend to play really aggressive with Cho, but I go passive vs Garen and Riven. I avoid facing off, and when there is sparring, I'm making sure to still be last-hitting. Cho has a passive that restores health and mana when you kill something. Getting 2 or 3 last-hits during a scuffle can make a big difference, especially if you are aiming your vorpal spikes to hit Garen. Just focus on farming and getting Feast stacks, do your best to annoy Garen and affect his farming (silence him as he's coming to silence you, etc), and by level 10 or so you will have pretty much nothing to worry about.


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Tyrang

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorGentleman View Post
Garen is my worst nightmare when I play as Cho. Garen and Riven are both really hard to deal with because even if you land your rupture, they are going to be able to outdamage you. I tend to play really aggressive with Cho, but I go passive vs Garen and Riven. I avoid facing off, and when there is sparring, I'm making sure to still be last-hitting. Cho has a passive that restores health and mana when you kill something. Getting 2 or 3 last-hits during a scuffle can make a big difference, especially if you are aiming your vorpal spikes to hit Garen. Just focus on farming and getting Feast stacks, do your best to annoy Garen and affect his farming (silence him as he's coming to silence you, etc), and by level 10 or so you will have pretty much nothing to worry about.
Great advice. Despite having judgement, Garen is a mediocre farmer. Also, Garen late game sucks while Cho rocks the house. Just be patient.

Silencing him is a great idea. Garen is **** useless when he cant use judgement. His silence is a melee atk, and yours is aoe. U should be able to spray him so he cant judgement you. Move away from him after that and dont give him the chance to spin. Usually Garen should move away from you on their own, since he is actually useless without judgement. Let him tank your creeps while you are at it.


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Crankdawg

Member

01-27-2012

I'm not entirely sure where the dmg was coming from. I'm assuming he had dmg runes from the initial amount of punishment I was taking.

From the start we each took our silence. I stayed back to help the jungler with the wolves and golem to speed him up. When I got to the lane I had 2 thirds of my mana remaining (approx) so I went about my business of last hitting. He was highly aggressive and would charge me with his silence repetedly. whenever I saw this coming I would scream in his direction so that he couldn't follow up with his spin-to-win. Problem is that as this was going on, I was running out of mana. So by the time we hit lv3 I was running on fumes and he was going strong. Then he caught me too far from the twr, silenced me and the spinned me to death.

I TP'd back. at this point, I'm pretty sure I had a D. Ring, and brown boots (got ring first). Life number 2 went about the same as life 1 except that I started making some head-way. I wore him down by hitting him with a q-w combo and then getting a couple spike hits in. I ended up pushed near his twr with half life at lv6. I saw an opening and q-w'd him then when for the r to finish but I took 2 twr hits and while the R animation was going through he R'd me for the kill.

At that point I resolved to twr hug since he came back with a BF sword and I had D Ring, brown boots, and a catalyst (i think). however, after a couple minutes of only being able to sneak close enough to the minions to get exp from them dying I got ganked at the twr by the jungler making me 0-3-0. From that point on I couldn't get any momentum going. we surrendered at 20 and I ended up 0-6-0.

Point is, It didn't seem to be an issue of me hitting with skill shots but more of an issue that I couldn't do any permanent dmg cause I'd hurt him then he'd run off, heal and beat on me some more. wass very frustrating.


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Aemon Darkstar

Senior Member

01-27-2012

1. Start cloth armor + 2 health pots + 2 mana pots. Manage your mana, use it wisely.
2. RUSH Ninja Tabi, followed quickly by Glacial Shroud at least. Once you get Frozen Heart, you can literally ignore him.
3. Garen's harass movements are predictable. Charge in with Q, spin2win. Q him, W him, walk away. In this one instance, level Q over W in lane (generally you lane W over Q as its far harder for enemy to dodge).
4. Make sure your E spikes scratch him every time he comes to last hit. You want to keep his passive down as long as he is near you.
5. Stay away from the god **** bushes. Ward them if you can.
6. Farm like a boss and get R stacks. You scale better than he does.


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Tyrang

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Well Garen is deigned to be really strong in lane..... Just don't push the lane. I think Cho can out farm him. Late game Garen is a meat shield that brings nothing to team fight.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankdawg View Post
I'm not entirely sure where the dmg was coming from. I'm assuming he had dmg runes from the initial amount of punishment I was taking.

From the start we each took our silence. I stayed back to help the jungler with the wolves and golem to speed him up. When I got to the lane I had 2 thirds of my mana remaining (approx) so I went about my business of last hitting. He was highly aggressive and would charge me with his silence repetedly. whenever I saw this coming I would scream in his direction so that he couldn't follow up with his spin-to-win. Problem is that as this was going on, I was running out of mana. So by the time we hit lv3 I was running on fumes and he was going strong. Then he caught me too far from the twr, silenced me and the spinned me to death.

I TP'd back. at this point, I'm pretty sure I had a D. Ring, and brown boots (got ring first). Life number 2 went about the same as life 1 except that I started making some head-way. I wore him down by hitting him with a q-w combo and then getting a couple spike hits in. I ended up pushed near his twr with half life at lv6. I saw an opening and q-w'd him then when for the r to finish but I took 2 twr hits and while the R animation was going through he R'd me for the kill.

At that point I resolved to twr hug since he came back with a BF sword and I had D Ring, brown boots, and a catalyst (i think). however, after a couple minutes of only being able to sneak close enough to the minions to get exp from them dying I got ganked at the twr by the jungler making me 0-3-0. From that point on I couldn't get any momentum going. we surrendered at 20 and I ended up 0-6-0.

Point is, It didn't seem to be an issue of me hitting with skill shots but more of an issue that I couldn't do any permanent dmg cause I'd hurt him then he'd run off, heal and beat on me some more. wass very frustrating.
Ok, lets start with that Q. When do you land it? If you can get good enough to land it while he's running in, he'll waste his opportunity for harass. Keep ind mind that you are a ranged caster and Garren is a melee. Stay behind your minions. Make sure he has to run through them (slowing him down) in order to get to you.

I generally start Doran's Ring as well, it's a great starting item as Cho has tons of sustain and will be there a long time.

Your first item to rush...especially against Garren is probably Glacial shroud. It gives Armor and CDR...and some mana which is good because early game Cho tends to run out of mana before health. That should help Cho against Garren pretty easily.

Cho is also a superior farmer and pretty good at harass. So you should be able to out farm him. If you do manage to damage him significantly, Garren's passive will allow him to heal back up...but not if you hit him. Chase him around when he's low on health and generally boss him around. He'll be forced to back or simply not be able to regen HP. Use your Scream to tag him with some damage and stop his regen if you have trouble landing Q.


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DoctorGentleman

Member

01-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemon Darkstar View Post
1. Start cloth armor + 2 health pots + 2 mana pots. Manage your mana, use it wisely.
2. RUSH Ninja Tabi, followed quickly by Glacial Shroud at least. Once you get Frozen Heart, you can literally ignore him.
3. Garen's harass movements are predictable. Charge in with Q, spin2win. Q him, W him, walk away. In this one instance, level Q over W in lane (generally you lane W over Q as its far harder for enemy to dodge).
4. Make sure your E spikes scratch him every time he comes to last hit. You want to keep his passive down as long as he is near you.
5. Stay away from the god **** bushes. Ward them if you can.
6. Farm like a boss and get R stacks. You scale better than he does.
^^ This

You screwed yourself by going Doran's ring first, and by letting him hit level 2 before you. Good jungler shouldn't need help with golems, so just be sure you're in lane for as much XP as possible. I always always go cloth armor first vs ad top, even when I'm not playing Cho. Glacial Shroud and Ninja Tabi are great early items to get vs ad top. Don't waste your time trying to build AP Cho. The most AP you should be getting is a Rod of Ages, and focusing on bolstering your health, defense, and magic resist. If you're not going against a heavy ad top, you can go Catalyst first.


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deepbluereason

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Full armor rune page + cloth armor.


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