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Kassadin - Best build for Dominion?

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SifuCalvin

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Whatever AO Alt said, minus the merc treads. Here's why.
You can't expect to damage anything with rift walk having 10% magic penetration in offense tree.
Void staff is one of your final items, by the time you get it you will be level 18. You're giving up ALOT of early and midgame damage output because of lack of penetration. If you're going to settle for tabi/mercs if they have like 5+ hard cc or too much AD, you're going to have to build a haunting guise anyways out of the ruby crystal and hold off on the Odyn's. You should be countering heavy AD with thornmail and frozen heart anyways. Also the 3 points in the first tier of the defense tree should go to +6 armor because of Kassadin's passive already providing him magic damage mitigation.

Sorc boots should almost never be swapped for anything and if the case comes that there is an enemy team with an ungodly amount of CC, merc treads would be the only other option. When you reach that endgame, once you've completed your void staff, the spell pen on the boots will not be as necessary. You can sell them at this point for merc treads or tabi, OR cooldown (it actually increases your dps assuming you are casting constantly).


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Well, let's see as to what Sorc Shoes give us. MR change is on the left:

from 20 to 0 is a ~20% increase in damage.
from 30 to 10 is ~18% increase in damage.
from 40 to 20 is ~16% increase in damage.
from 50 to 30 is ~15% increase in damage.
from 60 to 40 is ~14% increase in damage.
from 70 to 50 is ~13% increase in damage.
from 80 to 60 is ~12.5% increase in damage.
from 90 to 70 is ~11.7% increase in damage.
from 100 to 80 is ~11% increase in damage.

Well, let's see as to what Sorc Shoes + HG mpen give us:

from 40 to 0 is ~40% increase in damage.
from 50 to 10 is ~36% increase in damage.
from 60 to 20 is ~33% increase in damage.
from 70 to 30 is ~30% increase in damage.
from 80 to 40 is ~28.5% increase in damage.
from 90 to 50 is ~26.6% increase in damage.
from 100 to 60 is ~25% increase in damage.

Mastery + Aura penetration is .855 multiplier; red marks are 8.5 flat.

The average bruiser has 30 MR, +1.25 per level, +6 from resistance mastery, +1.35 per level from scaling or +12 from flat blues, +35 from merc treads. So, by level 6, a comfortable ~80. Without SS/HG, that gets lowered to 61mr. With them, it gets lowered to 26.5; i.e.~28% damage increase. The MR number varies up and down, but I think most bruisers would have the ballpark of 70 to 100 natural MR depending on item choice; so for simplicity's sake; forgoing 40 flat penetration is forgoing between abouproximately 25% and 35% damage boost against the average bruiser.

Not exact, but gives a general ballpark of an idea. Sorc shoe upgrade is 750, HG upgrade is 575; rough guestimation is that you will be paying mostly the item slot for HG and about ~1200-1300 gold for that estimate damage boost against bruisers. Obviously less valuable against tanks and facemelt mode against those you bring to zero.

Hm...
Marks/Aura/Mastery --> 150 MR = 121 MR
200 MR = 163 MR

That + 40 MPEN --> 150 MR = 87 MR ---> 18% damage increase
--> 200 MR = 129 MR --->14% damage increase


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AO Alt

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Quote:
SifuCalvin:
Whatever AO Alt said, minus the merc treads. Here's why.
You can't expect to damage anything with rift walk having 10% magic penetration in offense tree.
Void staff is one of your final items, by the time you get it you will be level 18. You're giving up ALOT of early and midgame damage output because of lack of penetration. If you're going to settle for tabi/mercs if they have like 5+ hard cc or too much AD, you're going to have to build a haunting guise anyways out of the ruby crystal and hold off on the Odyn's. You should be countering heavy AD with thornmail and frozen heart anyways. Also the 3 points in the first tier of the defense tree should go to +6 armor because of Kassadin's passive already providing him magic damage mitigation.

Sorc boots should almost never be swapped for anything and if the case comes that there is an enemy team with an ungodly amount of CC, merc treads would be the only other option. When you reach that endgame, once you've completed your void staff, the spell pen on the boots will not be as necessary. You can sell them at this point for merc treads or tabi, OR cooldown (it actually increases your dps assuming you are casting constantly).


I've actually found that it's a *lot* more effective to get the void staff as early as after your glacial. Once you've got Glacial, Catalyst, Tear, Mercs, you're around level 11, 9ish if you're doing really well. You're sufficiently tanky at that point, and they don't do enough damage. Unless they have *really* heavy ap (the only thing that can really kill you), I'd rather have that void staff.
The damage increase once you get it is immense. I don't fear tank kassadins nearly as much without it as I do when they have it.

Initially I built like you suggest, but after ~2 or so games with my suggested build I was sold. Never went back.


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SifuCalvin

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Do the math and you'll realize that 40% spell penetration that early in the game pales in comparison to flat penetration.


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Hugs From Momma

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Quote:
konfetarius:

The average bruiser has 30 MR, +1.25 per level, +6 from resistance mastery, +1.35 per level from scaling or +12 from flat blues, +35 from merc treads. So, by level 6, a comfortable ~80. Without SS/HG, that gets lowered to 61mr.


Merc treads are 25 MR.


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AO Alt

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Quote:
SifuCalvin:
Do the math and you'll realize that 40% spell penetration that early in the game pales in comparison to flat penetration.


At that point they're usually at around 80 MR if they haven't bought any MR items. 120ish if they have one negatron. Possibly higher if we're talking about Rammus or someone building like a tank.
80 - 9 (marks) = 71 = 71*0.5 (40% staff, 10% masteries) = 35.5 mr left
80-29 (boots + marks) = 51*0.9 (masteries) = 45.9 mr left

60 mr
60-9=51*0.5 = 25.5
60-29=31*0.9=27.9

50 mr
50-9=41*0.5= 20.5
50-29=21*0.9 = 18.9

So not until they're down at 50 mr is it really better.

But the main benefit of void staff "rush" isn't that you become slightly better against 60 / 70/ etc armor, those people have no chance against Kassadin anyways. The main benefit is the fact that tanks (rammus, malphites, jarvans, etc) die really quickly. After void staff no one can survive you if you engage with full mana. It doesn't matter if they have 200 mr or 50 mr. And at that point they can't counter you either, not without spending all their gold on MR which will lose them the game to your ads.


EDIT: remind me, does the Dom aura give % mpen? I've forgotten.
EDIT again: It's 5% iirc. Doesn't really make a difference. Makes em *about* equal at 50 mr.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Quote:
AO Alt:
It lacks damage. It's decent for poke, but past level 6 you don't need it for poke anymore. E scales better in damage, and it's AOE, and more importantly, its cooldown is *much* shorter.
All in all, it's a much better skill for team fights, and single target skirmishes.
Only advantage in Q is that you aren't as dependant on people casting spells, and the silence lasts longer if they have someone dangerous as a caster.
Makes sense to me! I'm not a dirty Kassadin picker like you so I'm not that familiar with him. TIL


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Quote:
Merc treads are 25 MR.

Woops. Meh, the general impression still holds IMO.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-30-2012

For reference, let's take the 80 MR bruiser and Void Staff Dis Shizznit = will give you an 18% increase in damage.

Against a 50 MR bruiser, Void Staff is a 10% damage increase - and 50 MR is basically the break point at which 40 mpen combo gives you full 40% damage boost.

In other words, while Void Staff is obviously not as potent as bringing things down to 0 resistance, at 80 MR it is between the 20/40 options, and only grows stronger from there. I can see both sides of the argument more or less. Flat mpen against squishies, void staff against anything that even casts a sideways glance at a hexdrinker/wit'send/negatroncloak/etc.



As for cost efficiency, heh, if we assume that Kass doesn't care about having to upgrade to boots 2, it comes down:

2235 gold for 40 flat mpen + 20AP + 200 HP
vs.
2295 for 70 AP + 40% penetration


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Ikarurob

Senior Member

03-30-2012

you can use w to level up tear while on the fountain.....its slow as ****, but its something.

if your team casts spells you can use forcepulse as well

helpful tips for new Kass players