Help with Ryze

123
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AbsolutePK

Senior Member

03-28-2012

I used to use 21/9/3 and then 9/11/10 and now I just go 1/21/7.

Since Ryze damage comes from Mana pool I just take Exh/Ign mastery in Offense and go down Defense for more durability, picking up Expanded Mind and 3/4 movespeed from Utility.

Been a while since I've played Ryze though.


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Dimwitt

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Senior Member

03-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealWolf M View Post
9/0/21 is such a bad mastery, theres too much useless stuff in the utility tree to make it worth going 21

Best setup I have seen is 9/10/11, getting the SV, and then SV quints, giving you a starting SV of 10%. Doesn't seem like much, but when yo uhit level 1 ult it is very noticeable. You also keep the 10% Mpen which is very valuable, and get all the best defensive masteries to boot
Ryze gets naturally tanky from what he builds, i personally dont see much good coming from defense where as utility gives ryze

- move speed (sustained)
- spell vamp
- increased mana
- increased mana regen
- health regen per max mana


All of these things are nice to have :P wouldnt say they are wasted at all.


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RealWolf M

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Senior Member

03-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimwitt View Post
Ryze gets naturally tanky from what he builds, i personally dont see much good coming from defense where as utility gives ryze

- move speed (sustained)
- spell vamp
- increased mana
- increased mana regen
- health regen per max mana


All of these things are nice to have :P wouldnt say they are wasted at all.

Ryze gets all of those that are truly valuable to him wit hjust 11 in utility.

So you are spending 10 extra points for nothing

You can get the mana, the spell vamp, the movement speed, and if you make it 12 you can also get the runic affinity.

Why does Ryze need increased mana regen? He has plenty. And health regen/max mana, when maxed out, say Ryze has 4k mana, that is 40hp/5. Not bad, but at this point in the game he also has ove r20% base spellvamp, and with his ult up way more. Now considering this is his sustain, both out of fights and in it, how does 40hp/5 help him in Dominion.


Meanwhile, to get there you have either spent points on Good Hands, Greed, Awareness, or Sage, all of which are almost completely useless


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TakinTheHeat

Senior Member

03-29-2012

15% cdr on summoner spells vs some armor, some mr/some hp level and some flat hp.

9/0/21 is stronger by midgame I'd say.

Also, you can't just dismiss a free 6% cdr Now you can use your glyphs on mr per level which ryze has a hard time itemizing for. Only problem is you can't get a point into revive with this setup, which annoyed me enough that I don't use it, but flash/ghost ryze is pretty good.

I thought it was pretty funny that neither of you brought either of those up, lol.


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AbsolutePK

Senior Member

03-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakinTheHeat View Post
15% cdr on summoner spells vs some armor, some mr/some hp level and some flat hp.

9/0/21 is stronger by midgame I'd say.

Also, you can't just dismiss a free 6% cdr Now you can use your glyphs on mr per level which ryze has a hard time itemizing for. Only problem is you can't get a point into revive with this setup, which annoyed me enough that I don't use it, but flash/ghost ryze is pretty good.

I thought it was pretty funny that neither of you brought either of those up, lol.
You scoff at armor and mr over 15% summoner cdr, and then point out he has a hard time itemizing for mr? I've never used the 21pt Utility mastery, how much doesn't that reduce summoner spells by? About 30 seconds? A whopping 6 MR for 3 points in Defense is pretty pitiful, I'll agree.

I don't think Ryze has difficulty at all itemizing for MR. Pretty sure last I checked Odyn's Veil was the best MR item in Dominion, and it's built from Catalyst which Ryze should have no issue picking up, hell picking up 2 shouldn't be an issue.

Flat 6% is great for early levels, but CDR isn't really an issue for Ryze to itemizing for, even though he shouldn't have to with his champion passive and Q passive (2%,4%,6%,8%,10% depending on rank, if that's wrong I blame mobafire). Frozen Heart is also a core item, giving you 30% CDR with Frozen Heart and rank 5 Q. If you really want 40% you can just pick up a Kindlegem.

Just made sure on the Q CDR in a custom game starting with 0 CDR, it is 2% per rank.


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RealWolf M

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Senior Member

03-29-2012

15% on sumoner spells isn't that amazing when you are running garrison/revive, which is the primary for ALL bot lane, maybe trading out an exhaust for a garrison. Top lane will be similar. The summoner spells aren't so vital to be worth that 20 points in those wasted summoners.

mr/lvl vs 6 flat mr, the flat mr is more helpful early, as lategame he already has odyns and is tanky. Indeed if Ryze needs MR that badly, by the time they equalise he can have bought a negatron cloak.

This is assuming a 6% cdr from glyphs, and the rest of the glyphs going into MR/Lvl


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Shaxtenn

Senior Member

03-29-2012

how to ryze

1. open the shop
2. click magic -> mana
3. buy everything, in any order
4. smash your QWER keys until they stop working


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AbsolutePK

Senior Member

03-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaxtenn View Post
how to ryze

1. open the shop
2. click magic -> mana
3. buy everything, in any order
4. smash your QWER keys until they stop working
I did that for a while.

People laughed at me for buying a Sheen.


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Basoosh

Senior Member

03-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealWolf M View Post
9/0/21 is such a bad mastery, theres too much useless stuff in the utility tree to make it worth going 21

Best setup I have seen is 9/10/11, getting the SV, and then SV quints, giving you a starting SV of 10%. Doesn't seem like much, but when yo uhit level 1 ult it is very noticeable. You also keep the 10% Mpen which is very valuable, and get all the best defensive masteries to boot
Yep - 9/10/11 is the way to go. There's a lot of useless stuff in the Utility tree and (as mentioned) you can't get upgraded Revive if you go for 21 utility. And if you go 21 defense, you can't get the low tier utility masteries (which are exceptional for Ryze).


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TakinTheHeat

Senior Member

03-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsolutePK View Post
You scoff at armor and mr over 15% summoner cdr, and then point out he has a hard time itemizing for mr? I've never used the 21pt Utility mastery, how much doesn't that reduce summoner spells by? About 30 seconds? A whopping 6 MR for 3 points in Defense is pretty pitiful, I'll agree.

I don't think Ryze has difficulty at all itemizing for MR. Pretty sure last I checked Odyn's Veil was the best MR item in Dominion, and it's built from Catalyst which Ryze should have no issue picking up, hell picking up 2 shouldn't be an issue.

Flat 6% is great for early levels, but CDR isn't really an issue for Ryze to itemizing for, even though he shouldn't have to with his champion passive and Q passive (2%,4%,6%,8%,10% depending on rank, if that's wrong I blame mobafire). Frozen Heart is also a core item, giving you 30% CDR with Frozen Heart and rank 5 Q. If you really want 40% you can just pick up a Kindlegem.

Just made sure on the Q CDR in a custom game starting with 0 CDR, it is 2% per rank.
Kindlegem doesn't fit anywhere into his item build. Generally, you want to itemize for 40% cdr with frozen heart, which is indeed 10% from masteries or runes and 10% from his Q.

One does not simply not get 40% cdr asap on Ryze. Because of his passive, cooldown essentially stacks with itself.

I'd go as far as to say a ryze with 30% cdr vs a ryze with 40% cdr would do 20% less damage.

I'll agree at this point though, 9/10/11 is best


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