So, revive...

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Clearcutter

Junior Member

03-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isysar View Post
I cannot understand the idiocy that many people are saying here, even Fdru.

Revive is the #1 summoner spell in dominion. Watch any game in the Monday night NESL dominion tournaments, and you'll see the power of 4-5 Revives per team.

Yes, Revive garrison is #1 for bottom, but it's great on any champion if you use it intelligently.

To the people who are saying Revive is overused, look at it this way. It's like Flash on Summoner's Rift, but for Dominion. It is just too **** strong not to take. Sure, it has a long cooldown, but the team with 4 revives top WILL beat the team without 4 revives top for windmill. And later on throughout the game, it can easily turn the tides of a game.

^ All of this information/opinion is accurate as of 3 weeks ago. I played in the NESL dominion tournaments for a month with Team Tri-Force (we didn't do very well), and I've since stopped playing dominion. I went back to SR. (yes, yes, pour the hate on me). But unless the Dominion meta has changed in the last 3 weeks, Revive is just an exceptionally strong spell when you coordinate it's use with your team.

In solo queue is where I'd say revive is LEAST useful (except for bottom of course). What makes revive strong is coordination and using it at the same time as your teammates so you all can rush back into a fight and hold a crucial point. (Plus having a free giant's belt for a while) You won't get coordination in solo queue. My experience (max of 1840 elo, currently like 1720 or something) in solo queue is that coordination is extremely abnormal. Could just be my last games, and granted, I haven't played in 3 weeks. But it's just awful. People have little conception of team comp or coordination, and so you will likely not get optimal use out of revive. In solo queue, I'd say feel free to choose other summoners (except for bottom: Revive/Garrison is king), but if you watch the NESL tournaments, you will quickly see the power of Revive.

its really hard to hear you out when you have about 1/10th of my games played and 600 lower elo.


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Hékate

Senior Member

03-19-2012

I think revive is amazing, but as a few others have stated, its use in solo q at lower elos isn't as great. I'm at about 1670 and rising and just now starting to see more revives. Lower than that though, I was usually the last to die and the only one with revive so didn't find a lot of opportunity to use it. Bot it's a must regardless of elo... top it's great when you have more revives or premade or you've got some beef on the team that can keep the fight going until you return.

For now I use it mostly on highly mobile/high range champs top, and always bot. As Lux, even if I'm the last one to die defending top, I can revive + ult pretty quickly and return to the fight. I imagine I'll use it more and more as my elo rises and my teams are less herp derpy.


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Isysar

Senior Member

03-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clearcutter View Post
its really hard to hear you out when you have about 1/10th of my games played and 600 lower elo.
Fair enough. I'd probably feel the same way if I were in your shoes. My experience may be different, but just look at Nekrogen's team, and the other teams that play in the NESL (arguably the best example of competitive Dominion teams atm)

That being said, I'd love to be proven wrong and see a "fat premade" roll without little to no revives and do well. That'd be great to see.


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baloons

Member

03-19-2012

Since I'm bad and hardly ever use my summoner spells in SR or dominion, revive (and garrison) are the two that I find I do use almost on every cooldown and find them useful. Let's face it -- I ran exhaust ghost while climbing the ladder because chasing people down to 1 v 3 kill them was fun and profitable ;-) Once your in high elo your actually playing the game, so ghosting back to a point is really silly. Your not going to do anything if you rambo in 1 v 3, except die and give your team a handicap for the 30 seconds your gone and not able to help capture a point. So let's talk about the other options quickly:

Heal -- heal baiting -- meh, you shouldn't be chasing (good opponents won't chase you needlessly) and there's heal points around the map
Exhaust -- handy
Ignite -- handy for sustainy champs, or for typical caster combo kills
Promote -- marginal use bot lane to be even more annoying (just make sure you use it properly!)
Flash -- flashing for a kill? little reason to do so. needing flash to escape? if your character is so squishy and has no way to kite, it's likely your playing them wrong or they simply might not have been a good choice against such a mobile team :-)
Ghost -- because ghosting to the windmill is SO important and nets you SO much when the rest of your team is 5 seconds behind you. Ghosting to run away? Again, kite or die.. No reason to chase you.. congrats you got away and still need to back to heal.
Revive -- barely lost a 1 v 1? Team fight didn't go quite right? Had to play rambo because no one else on the team has any guts to initiate? Revive and come back stronger. End game time and you trade kills bot -- guess who just came back to cap there bot for the win?
Garrison -- playing rambo again to unlock a point from a camping mao, ali, naut, entire team, etc? Garrison it up and likely you will live even when playing rambo. Or have some cc and wanting to hold a point against a larger opposition while waiting those precious seconds for backup -- garrison works as well.
Clarity -- for all the reason it's bad on SR and more! you have an increased mana regen buff, plus health packs give mana. To the trist I played with that ran it.. Thanks for the loss; you were worse than your spell :-)
Smite -- uhh -- smite what?
Cleanse -- very underrated.. I really should go after picking this one up more.
Surge -- also underrated, but I've not found enough situations where I can use the bonuses since I tend to play melee.. You get 12 seconds but if your only gett 4 AA's in, then ???

I've been running exhaust, but much like on SR I find l don't use it all that often; at least profitably. I may switch back to garrison again; or run cleanse on a few characters that have issues with cc. I think revive isn't because it's so good, so much as because so many other spells are lackluster and, assuming you die; revive will always get used in a profitable way (ok, ok, I've suicided a couple times to proc it in time so I can use it twice :-) ).


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dredzach

Senior Member

03-19-2012

In high elo, towers don't change hands as often because people tend to defend them properly. It's hard to root out good players from a tower and you won't catch those good players wandering through the jungle to get picked off.

Since it's hard to take over towers in high elo, revive can be clutch. If that revive stops windmill from changing hands even one time, it is MORE than worth it.

This only applies to high elo because in low elo the towers change hands constantly and easily because people don't know what defending is.


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ProSauce VT

Senior Member

03-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by dredzach View Post
In high elo, towers don't change hands as often because people tend to defend them properly. It's hard to root out good players from a tower and you won't catch those good players wandering through the jungle to get picked off.

Since it's hard to take over towers in high elo, revive can be clutch. If that revive stops windmill from changing hands even one time, it is MORE than worth it.

This only applies to high elo because in low elo the towers change hands constantly and easily because people don't know what defending is.
One problem with your statement. The highest of skilled players don't ever sit on there tower. Hell they hardly even stay near it. The reason can be shown in this scenario:
(Note- I am excluding the 2 bot for simplicity)
Four players are sitting at top or even just below WM in the Fog of War. 1 of the opposing team starts capping mid. 1 or 2 or even all 4 of your team respond and start heading there. 3 of there team can either then ambush the first to show or the highest damage(often the easiest to burst) or any combination thereof putting you at an instant disadvantage. Even if you do this in the most careful of ways you are still at a disadvantage in terms of map control because in some way you need to head towards the seemingly lone person capping.

Now lets say same scenario but instead you decide to take their mid so making it in theory a 1 for 1 trade. If all 4 of your team goes to cap their mid then the other 3 (the lone 1 is still capping your mid) go and cap WM and all of a sudden your down 3-2. If only one of your team goes and caps their mid then you both have 3 players in jungle and you don't know where they could be but still placing you in the jungle.

If of course your literally sitting on point at WM you are seen on the mini-map (which is the worst thing you can do at any given point of the game unless your trying to bait) which means all they have to do is simple arithmetic and start a cap on your mid or gank your bot, thus putting you out of position to help in any team fights for a good while. Yes you can recall but that puts you at least 10 seconds (this includes the 4.5 seconds to recall) from reaching a MS buff whereas the opposing team most likely is already MS buffed and can rush to top (or wherever really) with four.

I could go into possible scenarios forever but the main point is: if you all you do is sit in LoS or even are simply staying in one spot then you will inevitably be out of position to respond to the opposing team. Ultimately the team that wins is the team that can win the most jungle fights and keep map control(understand that by map control I'm referring to the same concept that is often referred to as in other games as board control. In this context It has little to do with how many points you have capped or with what your nexus HP is compared to the opposing team.).


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QueeuQ

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Recruiter

03-20-2012

revive is nice to enter fights you get killed early in, as has been said
doesnt take an 1800 elo player to tell you that