So, revive...

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LesserNemesis

Member

03-17-2012

So let me get this straight... when your 49 wins over losses your near 2k rating in dom? eh??

49 over is what he has, which is why i ask.


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BigDaddyRelish

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Senior Member

03-18-2012

~2100 here, my opinion on Revive is that it's an alright spell. Like said previously, when you have it at the right time and you use it it can definitely sway or keep the game in your favor, which is absurdly valuable.

However, it has a long as **** cd and in most games you'll only be able to use it twice or so, MAYBE three times. And there will inevitably be a lot of times where you really want it up or wish you had another ss but you won't, and that is very frustrating.


I'd say it's pretty much the best spell for bot though. Revive/Garrison will save the **** out of your point if you get ganked, and you won't be dying as frequently as you would be if you were anywhere else. Otherwise, it's not anymore special than the other ss', because while you do gain a distinct advantage with Revive in some situations, you pass up on other advantages the other ss' give you.


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swampfox357

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Senior Member

03-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LesserNemesis View Post
So let me get this straight... when your 49 wins over losses your near 2k rating in dom? eh??

49 over is what he has, which is why i ask.
That depends. Do you have 200 games played, or 500, or 1000? It's all relative. Also depends on the estimated difficulty of the wins (avg elo of each team).


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avatarofrandom

Senior Member

03-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BATH ROBE GO View Post
One revive at a time is not nearly as useful, since if that one person had had exhaust or ignite instead of revive, they may not have lost that fight in the first place from which they are now reviving themselves.
Terrible argument. You say "you would have won the fight with exhaust" but you have no idea if that's true or not. Was it a 1v1 situation? Were there more people involved? If there were two or more, would exhaust have helped that much? Would ignite? Doubtful. Would coming back to your tower in just a few seconds help with full hp + bonus hp help? It could possibly turn the tides if the other people are weak (more than likely).

What if the other players had a way to counter your ignite or exhaust? Can they counter you running back at rammus speeds with bonus hp? Not without taking revive themselves. THAT is the true power of revive.


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Jazba Junoon

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Master Recruiter

03-18-2012

Revive = only good 4 bottom lane


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Isysar

Senior Member

03-18-2012

I cannot understand the idiocy that many people are saying here, even Fdru.

Revive is the #1 summoner spell in dominion. Watch any game in the Monday night NESL dominion tournaments, and you'll see the power of 4-5 Revives per team.

Yes, Revive garrison is #1 for bottom, but it's great on any champion if you use it intelligently.

To the people who are saying Revive is overused, look at it this way. It's like Flash on Summoner's Rift, but for Dominion. It is just too **** strong not to take. Sure, it has a long cooldown, but the team with 4 revives top WILL beat the team without 4 revives top for windmill. And later on throughout the game, it can easily turn the tides of a game.

^ All of this information/opinion is accurate as of 3 weeks ago. I played in the NESL dominion tournaments for a month with Team Tri-Force (we didn't do very well), and I've since stopped playing dominion. I went back to SR. (yes, yes, pour the hate on me). But unless the Dominion meta has changed in the last 3 weeks, Revive is just an exceptionally strong spell when you coordinate it's use with your team.

In solo queue is where I'd say revive is LEAST useful (except for bottom of course). What makes revive strong is coordination and using it at the same time as your teammates so you all can rush back into a fight and hold a crucial point. (Plus having a free giant's belt for a while) You won't get coordination in solo queue. My experience (max of 1840 elo, currently like 1720 or something) in solo queue is that coordination is extremely abnormal. Could just be my last games, and granted, I haven't played in 3 weeks. But it's just awful. People have little conception of team comp or coordination, and so you will likely not get optimal use out of revive. In solo queue, I'd say feel free to choose other summoners (except for bottom: Revive/Garrison is king), but if you watch the NESL tournaments, you will quickly see the power of Revive.


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ANUS JACKHAMMER

Member

03-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by avatarofrandom View Post
Terrible argument. You say "you would have won the fight with exhaust" but you have no idea if that's true or not. Was it a 1v1 situation? Were there more people involved? If there were two or more, would exhaust have helped that much? Would ignite? Doubtful. Would coming back to your tower in just a few seconds help with full hp + bonus hp help? It could possibly turn the tides if the other people are weak (more than likely).

What if the other players had a way to counter your ignite or exhaust? Can they counter you running back at rammus speeds with bonus hp? Not without taking revive themselves. THAT is the true power of revive.
I'll correct you on that one. The actual quote: "they may not have lost that fight in the first place." You misquoted me as saying "you would have won the fight with exhaust" and then knocked down that straw man with the rhetorical "but you have no idea if that's true or not." So I find it amusing that you called my argument terrible.

I made no absolute statement, because obviously you can't know with certainty. It's why I said "may have", and I have enough Dominion experience to know that Exhaust does win fights.

I think you undervalue Exhaust. Exhaust does win fights, and not just 1v1s. Most Dominion fights are small skirmishes, 2v2s and 3v3s. Exhaust effectively takes out one AD for most of the fight, since these fights tend to be short in duration. If not AD, it can cancel a lot of an enemy AP's burst if timed well (though obviously not as effective as on an AD).

"Was it a 1v1 situation? Were there more people involved? If there were two or more, would exhaust have helped that much? Would ignite? Doubtful." When you ask if there were more people, are you speaking of 1v2 and 1v3, or of 2v2 and 3v3? I've addressed the 2v2 and 3v3 situation. If 1v2 and 1v3, Exhaust / Ignite would not help, and it'd be in your interest as a player to know this and to not waste it. If you're in a 1v2 or 1v3, Revive might help you get back there and stop them from capping (that is, if they're capping your mid / bot; Windmill is another story. Even with the speed it takes 10-15 seconds to run there from base). Even still, you're just running into another 1v2 or 1v3, and are likely to lose that unless someone's low - and in this case, you can quite confidently guess that an Exhaust or Ignite would have finished that person off who was low. But, there is still utility in stopping them from capping, trusting your teammates to get there to help. You seem to think that I'm saying Revive is worthless. I'm not saying that - it's nice; but it's too situational, whereas Exhaust / Ignite are more reliable.

I also think you undervalue Ignite. Its utility is primarily in its healing debuff. One example: AD Sion can be scary when he pops his ultimate...but not when ignited (tamed lifesteal) or Exhaust (tamed damage, and lifesteal by consequence). But this is just an example that you can apply to other champions, and in fact, you kind of have to, because any Sion worth his salt will grab Cleanse since Exhaust / Ignite so easily ruin him. But, Cleanse is not a very common sight, and in most cases your Exhaust / Ignite is going to work just fine if you use them wisely.

Again, Revive is nice. You can save points using it. No doubt. But, you can use Exhaust two to three times for every one Revive. That's (if you're good with Exhaust) 2-3 fights won with Exhaust in the time that you can save 1 capture point with one Revive.

Update: Forgot to mention. I only solo and duo queue, so that's where I'm coming from. I've already said, Revive is powerful when used in premade groups.


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Wongy

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Member

03-18-2012

There are often times in the game when you die, only to have a 20-second respawn timer.

Long-time veterans of Dominion will know that this gametype is all about TIME. Every second counts in Dominion - one second could mean the difference between having to re-cap (which can take more than 20 seconds if they have strong defenders/zoners) a tower or being able to disrupt it to prevent a cap (saving your team valuable seconds).

No other summoner spell can buy you that kind of time - when you're dead, you are doing nothing. Ghost may buy you a few seconds of running across the map, and you might be able to use it more frequently than Revive... but is Ghost useful during death, when you might need to clutch contest a capture?

That's why Revive is a great dominion spell - and only the best learn to use it at the right time.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

03-18-2012

You cant cleanse/QSS out of an enemy's revive.

Checkmate, Atheists.


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avatarofrandom

Senior Member

03-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BATH ROBE GO View Post
I'll correct you on that one. The actual quote: "they may not have lost that fight in the first place." You misquoted me as saying "you would have won the fight with exhaust" and then knocked down that straw man with the rhetorical "but you have no idea if that's true or not." So I find it amusing that you called my argument terrible.
I almost always just solo que as well and always run revive.

My argument: Revive has no counter except revive. That's why it is strong. You missed my point.