Veigar on Dom - Why so hated?

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CommodoreSkippy

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Senior Member

03-16-2012

Veigar's Event Horizon is VERY reliable, and can trap and stun multiple people at once, basically without warning. Annie's stun may be great, especially with Tibbers, but it doesn't remain as a zone of denial like EH does. And Annie's short range hurts.

Either way, neither show up on Dominon much.


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Orphane

Senior Member

03-17-2012

EH is also hurt by the fact that the way it works does allow people to dash out of it. The moment someone does get through and you don't have teammates who are willing to peel off you, you're probably going to die very quickly. He could probably work decently as a bot, but he might have quite a few bad matchups in addition to being very vulnerable to ganks.


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Forbiddian

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Senior Member

03-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelBagel View Post
I was facing a Poppy, Panth, and Fiora. All have gap closers and I still did fine. CDR blues + masteries + rushed DFG = plenty of CDR for Veigar. The key is smart play.
Your example game is awful. You outplayed your opponents and you won. There is no champion that's so bad that you lose regardless of how well you play and how poorly they play. Nobody claims that there is.

The problem with Veigar is that you need to outplay your opponents in order for him to be useful. I can't think of a champion with as high a skill cap as Veigar who also gives the opponents so much room to outplay him. If any of his skills are on CD (or he misses them or hits the wrong target, whatever) including to a large extent Ignite and DFG, he's a free kill. Even if you're landing your hits and playing well, your opponents can outbuild you, even.

There are other champions that are very hard to play/have high skillcaps. Nidalee, Ezreal come to mind. But if you manage to practice them up to where you're pretty good with them, you can contribute to your team even while making mistakes and even if your opponents are familiar with your abilities.

If someone is good with Veigar and picks Veigar, they'll probably be effective. But if they were equivalently good with a different champ, odds are they'd contribute more from that champion.


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ColdFireBeast

Senior Member

03-17-2012

It honestly depends. He's a good counterpick to some champions, in draft. But like, if they have Kass or LeBlanc then just forget about it. That's really his issue is that for gibbing people there are better champions who have mobility.
But Veigar's a good counterpick for high melee teams and there comes a point where 2 second cooldown Qs doing 600 damage start doing work.


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Prometheius

Senior Member

03-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphane View Post
EH is also hurt by the fact that the way it works does allow people to dash out of it. The moment someone does get through and you don't have teammates who are willing to peel off you, you're probably going to die very quickly. He could probably work decently as a bot, but he might have quite a few bad matchups in addition to being very vulnerable to ganks.
You're terrible if you didn't land it directly on them or at their landing spot from dash.


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Rebonack

Senior Member

03-17-2012

Veigar's basic problem is that he can blow one target up instantly.

And that's pretty much it.

Any assassin turns him into chunky salsa and if someone survives his burst then he's hosed.

He's just too one-dimension. Too easy to catch. And his AP farming ability does little more than hold him back in Dominion. I honestly think Riot would be well-served to remove the AP farming mechanic and rework the lil' guy accordingly.


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Orphane

Senior Member

03-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheius View Post
You're terrible if you didn't land it directly on them or at their landing spot from dash.
So you land every single EH and it always hits multiple targets, even when they come from behind or over a wall? Okay...


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Prometheius

Senior Member

03-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphane View Post
So you land every single EH and it always hits multiple targets, even when they come from behind or over a wall? Okay...
I've practiced enough for 80% accuracy with smart cast and only position Veigar in areas where I have pretty much 100% clear vision.

You don't need to hit multiple targets. That's the entire **** point of a team. Find the ones that are gunning for you, drop them, let your team clear out other problems while you reload.


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Akesgeroth

Senior Member

03-18-2012

Veigar is fine for Dominion. People tend to think he can't do well since you don't farm much on Dominion, but the fact that you start at level 3 and gear up fast means you also skip that early match portion where Veigar is powerless.


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T3kn0man

Senior Member

03-18-2012

To be honest both sides are right. Overall Veigar is fine as a character. He can CC many characters (and act as an area of denial), do reliable AoE, and massive burst. And yes like any other AP character he can die if being out of position, abandoned by his team, and caught by an assassin...like any other character..ever.

He is a great counter pick character. Properly supported he can be an amazing part of any team. I have played with both bad and great Veigars on Dominion. But that is true of any character. The idea of "you only won because you outplayed them" is kinda like saying "In football the team with the most points usually wins." Like thanks for the play by play John Madden.

I would rather have a Veigar honestly than most of the range DPS (Ashe, MF, and Cait specifically.) that I get in draft.

Also forgot to mention he is the only character that gets more than just gold and exp for kills/assists, he gets AP. He gets free scaling.