Veigar on Dom - Why so hated?

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Commander Yordle

Senior Member

03-16-2012

So I decided to give the Tiny Master of Evil a try on Dominion. Mainly because I only play Dominion these days, but also because I have 3 skins for him and missed playing the only evil yordle in the League.

So we load up and I pick Veigar. 3 other people pick bruisers and the last picked Karthas. Pre-game chat is silent, so I mentally shrug and lock in. We load into the game and my Baron Von Veigar buys the standard Doran's and boots that many other AP champs start with and I head top.

Why top? Because Karth wanted bot and I figured Event Horizon would be awesome for the first fight. We lose the fight top, but only just barely. And barely just losing top was impressive because their team was:

Fiora, Ryze, Pantheon, and Poppy. They also had Riven, but she was their bot.

Gragas then puts all of the blame on me for picking Veigar and went so far as to say that we were going to auto-lose simply because I picked the evil Yordle.

Well, I was #1 on the scoreboard for 90% of the game and dropped down to #2 at the end. Who won? We did. Once I started getting items I could almost 1 shot Poppy because she built pure AP and Ryze would get instagibbed by my team once Event Horizon stunned him.

Overall I played smartly by supporting my team with minion pushing power, an AoE stun, and the ability to take Poppy out of the fight instantly.

The result? Gragas raged all game about how bad I was. When we won he took all of the credit for "carrying" (last place on the scoreboard) and put the team on ignore during late game.

So, why is Veigar so universally reviled on Dominion? A well played one can be gamechanging, but people seem to not want to give him a chance.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ascleph

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-16-2012

Score doesnt matter and its entirely posible to carry and end up last, hell, people that carry TEND to end up last, since they sacrifice points for actual winning movements.
Not saying that gragas fits in that description, just pointing it out.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CommodoreSkippy

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-16-2012

I sympathize for you having to deal with a teammate like that, always annoying, no matter who you pick.

I think the main reason nobody wants to see a Veigar on the field is because, unlike in SR, you don't get 20 minutes of farming up bonus AP with his Q before the real fighting begins. That's a LOT of bonus AP if you spam it well.

Me personally? I don't really care. The ratios on his W and R are sick, and W's zone of denial and stuns are fantastic.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Commander Yordle

Senior Member

03-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascleph View Post
Score doesnt matter and its entirely posible to carry and end up last, hell, people that carry TEND to end up last, since they sacrifice points for actual winning movements.
Not saying that gragas fits in that description, just pointing it out.
I know. But the main reason why I was higher up in score was because I had 6 nullifies and 6 captures, compared to his 2 nulliefies and 1 capture. And believe me, Gragas didn't sacrafice himself for the team.

That wasn't the whole point of my post though.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Commander Yordle

Senior Member

03-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CommodoreSkippy View Post
I sympathize for you having to deal with a teammate like that, always annoying, no matter who you pick.

I think the main reason nobody wants to see a Veigar on the field is because, unlike in SR, you don't get 20 minutes of farming up bonus AP with his Q before the real fighting begins. That's a LOT of bonus AP if you spam it well.

Me personally? I don't really care. The ratios on his W and R are sick, and W's zone of denial and stuns are fantastic.
I had my passive at around 100ish bonus AP. In Dominion the key is to farm champions.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nyx87

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-16-2012

The reason Veigar is a weak pick is similar to Annie's. Lack of mobility means that anyone who can dash/blink to you(see almost any assassin and a majority of Tanky DPS) will kill you. Then there is his high cooldowns and moderately difficult to land stun and AoE. He definately has his uses with and against certain teams, but if you are facing a Leblanc or Talon, you are pretty toast.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Commander Yordle

Senior Member

03-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
The reason Veigar is a weak pick is similar to Annie's. Lack of mobility means that anyone who can dash/blink to you(see almost any assassin and a majority of Tanky DPS) will kill you. Then there is his high cooldowns and moderately difficult to land stun and AoE. He definately has his uses with and against certain teams, but if you are facing a Leblanc or Talon, you are pretty toast.
I was facing a Poppy, Panth, and Fiora. All have gap closers and I still did fine. CDR blues + masteries + rushed DFG = plenty of CDR for Veigar. The key is smart play.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ascleph

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelBagel View Post
I know. But the main reason why I was higher up in score was because I had 6 nullifies and 6 captures, compared to his 2 nulliefies and 1 capture. And believe me, Gragas didn't sacrafice himself for the team.

That wasn't the whole point of my post though.
If you know then you shouldnt try to justify your pick based on score, but on actual winning movements, beyond instagibing someone because the game is not about kills either. The reason why someone who "carries" a team in dominion can end up last is because he'll be constantly breaking his caps to stop the enemy from interrupting the others or succesfully roaming, etc.
Not saying he did any of those or that you didnt do them yourself, but score is 100% irrelevant and shouldnt even be brought up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelBagel View Post
I was facing a Poppy, Panth, and Fiora. All have gap closers and I still did fine. CDR blues + masteries + rushed DFG = plenty of CDR for Veigar. The key is smart play.
You are forgetting another factor: Them being terrible. The only way viegar can survive assasins is with proper support from distruptors which doesnt seem like it was the case for you. You were either landind your stun to protect yourself or to get kills, if it ended up being for both then it was the enemy team being terrible more than veigar having effective tools.
Veigar is not the worst of the worst, but theres no reason why a competent pantheon or pooper wouldnt be able to take out a veigar with no babysitter.

Hell, poopy went full AP against a veigar... thats saying a lot already about their lvl of "skill"


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ldav

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

03-16-2012

Because he gets instaggibed by every single tanky deeps in the game and you won't ever get to farm your q for ap, which is one of the major reasons why he's worth picking. In dominion you're nothing but a walking stun and ult

Had poppy not been an idiot she'd have gotten a qss and not built ap. She only really needs trinity to instagib you, really

There's just way too many better bot laners in dominion, he's not worth the trouble. He's better suited for the passive laning phase and 5 v 5 teamfights of SR, in my opinion

That being said. Play whoever the **** you want, they can deal with it


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Stralucire

Senior Member

03-16-2012

For one, there's the problem of itemization. You aren't naturally tanky, so building a lot of survival gear won't generally save you in a bad situation. You could build for AP Carry, but that doesn't give you much beyond a single rotation: if their team stacks MR, or if you miss a skillshot and fail to land a kill, or even if the battle goes for too long, you're about as useful as a pound of Yordle flesh. Prime target for bruisers and AD carry.

But what it really comes down to is Event Horizon. The best Veigars I've seen will milk EH for all its worth, and they do a **** fine job of it, but ultimately it's a gameable skill. If you can't stun a target precisely with the cast then any intelligent opponent will avoid getting stunned. Hell, I've even escaped Veigars as Riven by leap striking over the EH wall from inside it. A Veigar without a good Event Horizon is basically a poor man's Ryze.