Dominion Tier List for this day of 03-10-2012

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GrignardTS

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CommodoreSkippy View Post
TELL ME HOW THEY BUILD.! I must know.
8I
I've done:

Ring + Boots + Prospectors
Sorc Shoes
Rylai's
Nashor's
Void staff or Cap



up until about...3 days ago. Now I feel the recommended items:

Ring + Boots + Pots
Ionian
Rylai's
Void Staff or Cap
Void Staff or Cap

...are superior. You need the CDR earlier than I was originally building IMO.

I also go 9-21-0 with mpen reds, mana regen/level seals, cdr blues, and cdr quints.

I nearly always get Staff second since you skip the Sorc Shoes. However, if they refuse to build MR then raw damage would be better.

I'm not 100% this is my build yet. I still have more testing to do and feel fitting in AS somewhere would be useful. Possibly always going Staff, skipping the Cap, and building AS as a third late game item.


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Argodis

Senior Member

03-12-2012

I still don't understand this fetish people have towards Vayne and Kog. In most situations any other AD carry will give you better results.

Sivir is easily the most well rounded AD carry on Dominion.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argodis View Post
Sivir is easily the most well rounded AD carry on Dominion.
Sivir is amazing to be sure, but I think her kit is better bottom. Her spell shield makes her able to 1v1 so many champions and survive ganks. Plus she can out push nearly anyone while simultaneously harassing.

While Vanye's Tumble, Stealth, True % dmg, and KB are better suited top where tankyderp rule.

As well as Kog with his superior range.


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BigDaddyRelish

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Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argodis View Post
I still don't understand this fetish people have towards Vayne and Kog. In most situations any other AD carry will give you better results.

Sivir is easily the most well rounded AD carry on Dominion.
Have to disagree. What I like to do with those two is go bot for the first half of a game or so because you can get such a gold advantage doing so while also being able to hold the wave, then swap off with someone and just rape face.

Vayne/Kog have two of the highest damage potentials in the entire game, and can be ridiculously hard to deal with when they get a big item or two.


I don't necessarily agree with tier lists all that much because there are too many variables to take into account in a 5v5 game. For example, some games I rape so much face as Nocturne that it's embarrassing, while I just played a game where trying to deal with a Nunu/Ashe kiting the piss out of me made it much harder for me to contribute without using my ultimate.

Same with Rammus, there have been times where it's just kind of laughable just how piss easy Rammus is to deal with and other times where he just ruins our ****.



Tier lists aren't even considered especially accurate for 1v1 fighting games like Street Fighter because of all the variables that you can take into account, so a 5v5 is just chaos.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyRelish View Post
Have to disagree. What I like to do with those two is go bot for the first half of a game or so because you can get such a gold advantage doing so while also being able to hold the wave, then swap off with someone and just rape face.
.



Tier lists aren't even considered especially accurate for 1v1 fighting games like Street Fighter because of all the variables that you can take into account, so a 5v5 is just chaos.
I can nearly see Kog bottom because of his range, but if I saw Vanye bot I would just charge and kill her.

Most bottoms would either massively outpush her or rip her in 1/2. She doesn't have the early game presence for bottom.

Even Kog can just easily get ganked.

I would do what you described with Sivir, where I know going bottom with her early ensures my victory and I can scale with her and switch top with IE, Sanguine, and Spark/PD.


..........


I think tier lists describe champions that are better at doing a multitude of roles (as Dominion asks us to do) exceedingly well, while some others can only perform 1 or 2 roles well.

For example, Wukong is just plain amazing at both defending and assaulting points. Where as someone like Karma as a hard time assaulting.


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Risemix

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Is Jarvan really tier 2? What's wrong with him exactly? I had him pinned as a tier 1 champ np.


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Argodis

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Tumble is overrated. It's not enough to get you out of harm's way unless your ult is up and she won't always have her ult to depend on.

What Sivir lacks in damage she brings in utility. Considering how bruiser heavy the meta is now, her ult benefits her allies a lot. Her spell shield also protects her from many key abilities. Wukong's Q, Pantheon's stun, Warwick's ult, Urgot's E, etc.

Vayne also has a far weaker early game. If you spend a lot of time playing AD Carries, this really becomes noticeable. Also, unlike Vayne, she has a poke.

People also don't buy many defensive HP items so the % true damage isn't all that special. People are more likely to buy a Frozen Heart or Thornmail to counter Vayne so It really ends up being not much better than any other steroid. And truthfully both Olaf and Irelia deal more true damage than Vayne while being substantially more durable.

As for an AD carry top to counter tanky DPS, I would much rather have MF or Corki top than Vayne. MF's early and mid game is only 2nd to Ezreal(Possibly Corki as well) and her kit makes her one of the best duelist in the game. Her W is also arguably one of the best steroids on an AD carry. It allows her to be one of the few champs that can take down WW in a 1v1 and is basically a free PD for the most part.

Corki's kit also screams bruiser killer and he would probably be the best choice for countering bruisers since not only does he do AD damage, but he does true damage, AP damage, and has a long range poke in addition to a built in escape. And for utility, his Q functions as a mini Hextech Sweeper.

After the nerfs, you're also going to need more than a big item or two to see that huge damage output from Vayne. She doesn't really pull away from many of the other carries until a bit later.

Vayne is better than Sivir when her ult is up but her ult won't always be up making Sivir far more reliable imo.

As far as Kog, he has more poke than Sivir but if your main reason for picking Kog is poke then you would have been better off with Ezreal.

Sivir doesn't output as much damage as Kog but how much damage you can output is correlated to how long you can survive. The only way for Kog to deal noticeably more damage than Sivir is for him to build a standard AD carry build and Kog will be far easier to kill without protection from his allies compared to Sivir.

I personally see Ezreal, MF, Sivir, Graves and Corki being better solo queue picks than Vayne, Tristana, and Kog.

I'm not saying Sivir is the best AD Carry on Dominion, but she is the most well rounded. There are situations where certain picks would be better but if you need a safe ranged AD pick, you can not go wrong with Sivir as she will perform reasonably well at bot and top.


Just throwing this in.
http://i.imgur.com/ytNwi.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZNtrn.png
Source

The graphs are over a year old and there are lot of unkonwn variables that can influence them but it still holds true for the most part. Every AD carry but Tristana and MF have been nerfed since this graph was made so I'm sure it's safe to say that late game Tristana still does more damage than any AD carry. On the second graph, Vayne would probably be somewhere between Kog and Corki, Sivir below MF, and Caitlyn above Ashe.

Again, a lot of people overrate Vayne's true damage and late game potential and don't realize how horrible her early and mid game is in comparison to other picks. If we're going to talk viability based on late game damage potential, Tristana should be in that discussion as she's not only the best in the damage department, but she has an ability that counters sustain. She also has an auto attack range of 700 and two ways to get away from opponents excluding flash.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

03-12-2012

I don't really understand what point you're trying to make Argodis.

Sivir is better than Vanye top? Vayne is not good top?

Neither of those are true.

Vanye does have a bad early game, but its not as bad as Tristana's.

I understand that tumble is not a reason to pick Vanye or say she's more viable than the next AD carry, but in a game that escape is the most important thing with most tanks building Mallet or Trinity every little bit makes a huge difference.

If you get caught, even for a second, it almost always means death. So champions that stand more on the carry end rather than tank need either range or escape.

Sivir has range, but her strength lies in pushing. She's amazing at it and I'm not sure why you would want to put her in a role where there is no pushing.

Its like putting Shen bottom. I'd like to bet he could 1v1 a hell of a lot of people down there, but he has the support tag for a reason.


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Osensei

Senior Member

03-12-2012

all tier lists are bias towards the champions that the user is best with/hates fighting against.

therefore, they are not accurate.


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Geryth

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osensei View Post
all tier lists are bias towards the champions that the user is best with/hates fighting against.

therefore, they are not accurate.
I am very proficient with Orianna, and I hate fighting rammus / shaco etc. I did my tier list based on what I see from playing games, not based on who I'm good with or hate fighting.

But, my tier list is biased based on performances of champions that other people play, not based on personal experience. I put Vlad in tier 4 because every time I see him, they lose. That could just be because I've only seen bads playing him, I have no first hand experience. And there's lot's of champions that I've only seen once or twice, or not at all. I can't effectively put those champions in a tier list.

This isn't a list for people to follow to the T or to be anything like Elementz's tier list which is dynamically changing every patch. I won't be updating this, simply because I don't have that kind of time. This is a list for new players to get an overall feel for what seems for work at least in the 1800-1900 elo range, and as a tool that might help get them there.

That said, I'm surprised this thread wasn't straight out downvoted into oblivion, just because of the word "tier" in the title. People think a tier list means the person is claiming superior knowledge, or the be all end all champion comparison. No one is that smart, even if that person had enough time to play each champion many times to have personal experience against a variety of foes. What's wrong though with someone posting their own opinion to the community? I guess we've evolved somewhat, because I've received positive feed back for my very imperfect list. Biased and imperfect maybe, but a well-informed tier list isn't useless. I don't see what's wrong with telling players "Hey, Kassadin, Urgot, Ryze, and Pantheon are really great champions to pick in Dominion. You should probably stay away from Veigar."