"94% of Tribunal cases are punished"

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powerbats

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Based on current votings patterns in Simply Alives other thread while not completely scientific the punish rate seems to be around 85% or so.

Again this is based solely for those participating in the study and isn't a basis for the whole community.


Since people still post about this using the ignore or mute button here.

Originally Posted by EncasedShadow
If ignoring or muting made verbal abuse and vulgar language acceptable, we wouldn't have a report option for it. It is however up to you determine what is verbal abuse and if the case meets that definition.


For the whole spam punish **** yet again that's been debunked so many times it's laughable. Also don't forget if spam punish was true the punish rate would be 100%, something those that post that it's real always conveniently leave out of their post.

Originally Posted by Zileas
Your hypothesis is that people are being wrongly motivated and are making bad decisions...

Well, you will be happy to know that this isn't the case. We have been validating results -- both people who were pardoned and those punished, and are very confident that things are fair. If anything, the tribunal results are too lenient.

- Zileas


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Exqzr

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomtimeEatANinja View Post
Im losing faith fast in the Tribunal. I just did 5 in a row and they were laughable and easy to pardon.

One guy got verbally abusive... I looked over the chat logs and he said NOTHING even the slightest bit mean or even unhelpful except when he finally said "shut the hell up" after one guy called him about 30 names and mocked him for maybe 10 comment strings about how much of a noob he was.

The next game he was reported for feeding... and hes was 7-1-8. Yes one death and he was reported for feeding. His third game was feeding aswell and he was 4-6-x with a decent build. Not exactly a terrible score and I can easily see someone getting that without doing it on purpose.

This kind of thing makes me seriously worried. Apparently all it takes in some sore loser to report you and it doesnt even need to make sense.
Folks,

This is going on everyday. Riot keeps saying "Statistically the tribunal is working fine". What they don't seem to know or care about is how the reporting threats from mates when you don't tow the line and do exactly what you are told to do (often by people who have no clue) and they will report you for ANYTHING. This BULLYING with Reporting is RUINING THE GAME. (can't say anything, can't do anything, just be a mindless LoL robot or get banned).

Then you run the risk of potentially getting spam banned. Its worse when the spam banners don't even SPEAK ENGLISH. MY God.

The only people supporting the tribunal right now just want the free IP.

P.S. I've never been in front of the Tribunal. I like the idea of it. In practice it's failing.


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SimplyAlive

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post

The only people supporting the tribunal right now just want the free IP.
I regularly vote on the NA Tribunal. I play on the EU server. I sure want that IP on my NA account!

Claims like these are hard to prove, especially if Riot has commented otherwise. There are safeguards in place. There are consequences for false reports.

What can Riot possibly do to convince you that the Tribunal is working as intended?

I dare to say, the answer is: 'nothing'


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Exqzr

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAlive View Post
I regularly vote on the NA Tribunal. I play on the EU server. I sure want that IP on my NA account!

Claims like these are hard to prove, especially if Riot has commented otherwise. There are safeguards in place. There are consequences for false reports.

What can Riot possibly do to convince you that the Tribunal is working as intended?

I dare to say, the answer is: 'nothing'
You make a reasonable point here.

How does Riot prove the Tribunal is working? You are right they can't. I think though that almost everyone could agree that it needs to be fixed at some core levels.


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Draikk

Senior Member

03-10-2012

I believe the 94% are no longer correct since Riot have lowered the requirements for getting a case into the Tribunal.

That said, it is very inconsistent for me, one day I get a whole load of really obvious punishes and the next is full of clear pardons


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onihero

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAlive View Post
What can Riot possibly do to convince you that the Tribunal is working as intended?

I dare to say, the answer is: 'nothing'
It is a system that is extremely ambiguous and allows the player base to determine what is punishable behavior and what is not. So if the player base determines that going against the meta is punishable behavior and punishes people for it, it is working as intended. If the player base determines that playing Eve is punishable behavior and punishes for it, it is working as intended. If the player base determines that being a bad player is punishable behavior and punishes for it, it is working as intended. The Tribunal will then suspend people for these actions and it will still be working as intended.

The very nature of the Tribunal is problematic.


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SimplyAlive

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by onihero View Post
It is a system that is extremely ambiguous and allows the player base to determine what is punishable behavior and what is not. So if the player base determines that going against the meta is punishable behavior and punishes people for it, it is working as intended. If the player base determines that playing Eve is punishable behavior and punishes for it, it is working as intended. If the player base determines that being a bad player is punishable behavior and punishes for it, it is working as intended. The Tribunal will then suspend people for these actions and it will still be working as intended.

The very nature of the Tribunal is problematic.
Not entirely true.

I believe Riot once said that the Tribunal gives the playerbase the possibility to fill in the grey areas of certain behaviour. They can not fill in the punishable things in its entirety. Riot can always revert suspensions or punish players for punishing cases that go against Riots view.

Playing Eve will never be a punishable offence, unless intentionally done with the intent of hurting the game of others.

Going against the meta isn't punishable, as long as you don't force a jungle soraka with heal and clarity without any consideration towards your team.

Bad play will never be punishable, unless done intentionally.

These grey areas are more linked towards behaviour than in-game choices. I'll try to find that Red post, could take a while.


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onihero

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAlive View Post
Not entirely true.

I believe Riot once said that the Tribunal gives the playerbase the possibility to fill in the grey areas of certain behaviour. They can not fill in the punishable things in its entirety. Riot can always revert suspensions or punish players for punishing cases that go against Riots view.

Playing Eve will never be a punishable offence, unless intentionally done with the intent of hurting the game of others.

Going against the meta isn't punishable, as long as you don't force a jungle soraka with heal and clarity without any consideration towards your team.

Bad play will never be punishable, unless done intentionally.

These grey areas are more linked towards behaviour than in-game choices. I'll try to find that Red post, could take a while.
The power to punish is in the player's hands. All you have to do is click a button and whammo, punished.

So if the player base determines that playing eve is punishable, they very well can suspend people for it. An internal audit MAY come across the case. The player MAY request through a support ticket that the case be looked at. Riot MAY overturn the case if they see it. Or the player MAY simply sit out the 1 day or 3 day or week suspension because they have no idea WHAT they got suspended for.

It also does look like a lot of players want bad play to be punishable. Just look at the number of false intentional feeding reports that get submitted to the Tribunal. All it takes is the right % of people annoyed with bad players to hit that punish button for it to be a suspendable offense.

The Summoner's Code is one big gray area. It is designed that way because Pendragon doesnt feel that Riot should state what is and isnt punishable behavior (see his philosophy quote about the arms race of punishment... which is a VERY VERY wrong way to look at justice and laws and deterring bad behavior on so many levels).


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UnknownVBS

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Internets View Post
Only stupid c unts who have never actually voted in Tribunal think that 94% of cases actually deserve to be punished.

Looking at you, stupid c unt.
Two things:

First, this post is a prime example of why the language filter is not an excuse to use inappropriate language in game. It's laughably easy to dodge it as you so trivially did, twice. This is unrelated to the thread, but every time I see something like this I feel the need to point it out since people still argue the language filter should allow them to be racist towards teammates...

Second, if you're calling someone a "stupid c unt" twice in two sentences in a generally calm and polite discussion, I would argue that your definition of what "deserve[s] to be punished" is very far from the norm, and as such I would not put much weight into your statement.


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Lord Reepa

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
You make a reasonable point here.

How does Riot prove the Tribunal is working? You are right they can't. I think though that almost everyone could agree that it needs to be fixed at some core levels.
Actually you can.... it's called their own best interest. Apparently you don't understand good business practices lol.

It doesn't need to be fixed at core levels, it may need some minor fine tuning if that. Everyone anti-tribunal person only has assumption and ignorance to back up their statements, they have absolutely zero solid proof of anything being wrong.

However on the other hand, Riot says it is working as intended and working really well. They are even pointing out that the Tribunal is more lenient than Riot would be themselves. FYI reporting and the tribunal work together but they aren't the same thing. The tribunal isn't broken because people threaten to report. Being reported is done in game, the Tribunal deals with you after there are ENOUGH reports.

Why believe the money hungry Riot...... wow that statement kind of answers itself doesn't it? Getting rid of customers and making them mad isn't necessarily in their best interest, with the exception of getting rid of the vermin that infests the games for the people who do little to nothing wrong...... I will believe the company every time because as I said before IT IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST to have a system that bans people with as little flaws as possible.