My new Karma support guide

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Destrucshot

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Hey everyone, recently made a guide on mobafire for support Karma, if you've ever wanted to try her as a support or just wanted to see more opinions on how to build her, feel free to check it out

feedback appreciated!

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...nd-tips-191884


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xlvMists

Junior Member

03-10-2012

if you would people to look at it and give you feedback. get it on solomid.com


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Destrucshot

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xlvMists View Post
if you would people to look at it and give you feedback. get it on solomid.com
got that idea from quite a few people, and it is done :P

http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=...12371331357827

havent sent for approval yet, looking for feedback first


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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-10-2012

I can't get behind this build. You claim to be a support but advocate starting with a Doran's Ring, which means there's no ward cover for your lane (ie, easy to gank). Your items don't mesh with a support's budget either, which implies you actually farm in the lane, or else go out of your way to farm later on (which you shouldn't be doing). Your build seems more like a standard AP build that wastes money on a couple of support items. You should do one or the other, but not both at the same time. And AP Karma wants a solo lane to get the farm for all those items you're pimping.

edit - also, 0 points in utility and 47% CDR with your items at lvl 18...?
edit 2 - sorry if I seem overly critical but you asked for feedback, and I main support so


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Destrucshot

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
I can't get behind this build. You claim to be a support but advocate starting with a Doran's Ring, which means there's no ward cover for your lane (ie, easy to gank). Your items don't mesh with a support's budget either, which implies you actually farm in the lane, or else go out of your way to farm later on (which you shouldn't be doing). Your build seems more like a standard AP build that wastes money on a couple of support items. You should do one or the other, but not both at the same time. And AP Karma wants a solo lane to get the farm for all those items you're pimping.

edit - also, 0 points in utility and 47% CDR with your items at lvl 18...?
edit 2 - sorry if I seem overly critical but you asked for feedback, and I main support so
woops, rectified the build do reduce the CDR overdose.

And as i mentioned in the build, your general support has an "oh ****" button ultimate whereas Karma does not, and she is more reliant on her abilities and if she has no AP and builds towards all aura items she wont have anything to make herself useful

In the laning phase i leave all the farm to my carry, and the gold earnt is through the assists i've picked up. The gold talent at the bottom of the defense tree gives extra gold when you kill or assist in a kill, so im getting a lot of gold if we can get kills off [which i generally do since they would go for me and fail because of my tankiness]

If you are looking to just sit back and farm then go the ward route with a faerie charm wards and pots. Starting with a Doran provides the stats and I found it to work even better than the wards and pots. You aren't so much easy to gank if you play smart and since this build is for tanky supports you wont have to worry about yourself, but more your carry.

If you remember back when the masteries were first changed, they mentioned how they wanted the defense tree to be more suitable for supports than before. This is a manifestation of that message.

I appreciate the feedback. I can understand how your general support would build in a particular way, but it can't work as well for Karma. Her end build has three auras, while in the mean time she is tanky and has a decent pool of AP for her abilities. Karma support is unorthodox, but it works.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destrucshot View Post
woops, rectified the build do reduce the CDR overdose.

And as i mentioned in the build, your general support has an "oh ****" button ultimate whereas Karma does not, and she is more reliant on her abilities and if she has no AP and builds towards all aura items she wont have anything to make herself useful

In the laning phase i leave all the farm to my carry, and the gold earnt is through the assists i've picked up. The gold talent at the bottom of the defense tree gives extra gold when you kill or assist in a kill, so im getting a lot of gold if we can get kills off [which i generally do since they would go for me and fail because of my tankiness]

If you are looking to just sit back and farm then go the ward route with a faerie charm wards and pots. Starting with a Doran provides the stats and I found it to work even better than the wards and pots. You aren't so much easy to gank if you play smart and since this build is for tanky supports you wont have to worry about yourself, but more your carry.

If you remember back when the masteries were first changed, they mentioned how they wanted the defense tree to be more suitable for supports than before. This is a manifestation of that message.

I appreciate the feedback. I can understand how your general support would build in a particular way, but it can't work as well for Karma. Her end build has three auras, while in the mean time she is tanky and has a decent pool of AP for her abilities. Karma support is unorthodox, but it works.
Utility tree actually gives more of what a support wants. The defence tree is nice, but having 0 in utility means you're passing up on passive gold/10 (synergises with the gold/10 runes if you use them, most supports use the quints), extra experience gain (important since supports tend to end up roaming more than farming), and max mana/mana regen for laning with. Plus the capstone of 15% shorter summoner cooldowns, which is great. Yes, being beefy in the early game is a good thing, but if you're doing your job properly you won't ever get into such a dire situation where the extra bit of beefiness will make or break you.

I understand that Karma can't really work well with standard support items, since she's pretty weak with no AP to back herself up with. The problem comes with the fact that on a support's budget you cannot afford them. The mercenary mastery isn't garunteed to make you money. You should never have a setup that simply assumes your opponents will always screw up and feed your lane kills, because when it doesn't happen you're way behind. You -could- do some farming in midgame (as a support Lux could/should be doing), but then you're then splitting the gold an extra way. Is it really worth using Karma as a support to split the gold 5 ways instead of 4?


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Powerstoned

Member

03-10-2012

I like this idea mostly, gonna try something similar for sure.

Have you considered Sorc boots instead? The whole in-and-out nature of her gameplay, for me, means cdr is less important.


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Sign Of Hope

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
I can't get behind this build. You claim to be a support but advocate starting with a Doran's Ring, which means there's no ward cover for your lane (ie, easy to gank). Your items don't mesh with a support's budget either, which implies you actually farm in the lane, or else go out of your way to farm later on (which you shouldn't be doing). Your build seems more like a standard AP build that wastes money on a couple of support items. You should do one or the other, but not both at the same time. And AP Karma wants a solo lane to get the farm for all those items you're pimping.

edit - also, 0 points in utility and 47% CDR with your items at lvl 18...?
edit 2 - sorry if I seem overly critical but you asked for feedback, and I main support so
You can't really say his build is bad from the way he builds her. Karma is no Sona or Soraka she is played different and should be built different. For example I play her support and not buying wards tell level 6 or 7 depending on there jungler. View my match history and you will notice that you build her different than other supports.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign Of Hope View Post
You can't really say his build is bad from the way he builds her. Karma is no Sona or Soraka she is played different and should be built different. For example I play her support and not buying wards tell level 6 or 7 depending on there jungler. View my match history and you will notice that you build her different than other supports.
I didn't mean that his build is bad, I meant that it is not a good build to try and force on a support, who shouldn't be taking much if any lasthits. Hard to fund those items with low income.

As for the wards, running with no starting wards is extremely risky. Smart opponents will notice it and realise you're ripe for an early gank.


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Tripc0de

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

what ^ said, in harsher tones.

Your guide sucks.

Completely unviable in the current 0-cs meta support, unless your team is ridiculously fed.

Rabadons by itself would take 30+ minutes to get.

Philo with 0 cs, starting with your doran's ring, takes ~ 12 minutes. Same with HoG.

By the time you have your 2 gp 5, it will be around ~ 20-22 mins in, add in another 3 mins for boots.

Your full build going no cs would take upwards of 70+ minutes to achieve.

No sustain/wards in lane means easy kills for enemy, including enemy jungler.


Not starting off with wards as a support? You're doing something wrong.
If you play support and don't have wards to start off with, You're doing it wrong.

Masteries- heal is fine, but never ever get friggin cleanse on a support. If you're caught, you're dead either way.


TLDR summary: Your guide sucks, deal with it.


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