Dota 2 vs. LoL

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BiteMe32

Member

07-04-2012

tried dota last night... vs bots (easy) and I got owned....

1rst game : got complained on at same as in LoL (like people that dont like noobs even if I told it was my 1rst ever dive in dota)
2nd game : 3 people quit... so I quit.
3rd game : we got so owned at easy...it wasnt funny.... so if that was easy mode, I cant imagine higher.

I might stick with LoL for now... dota is way different but its too early to say if its better.... well for me today, lol is better... because of my 3 poor attempts above.


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WAZ GOOOD NYUGGA

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Senior Member

07-04-2012

I liek pizza


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Galgus

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Senior Member

07-04-2012

Responses to OP:

Flash is probably pacifying games, but I think that Summoner Spells in general make the flow of the game exiting- when used aggressively, its like when someone decides a fight is worth using an Ultimate in.

I agree that more could be done to encourage an early mid gank in LoL, and that Flash is a culprit- but I do not think forcing enemies to lose gold is necessary.

I'll admit that LoL has been a bit cookie cutter with some champion designs. I myself use the term "Jax type champions" to describe most anyone with an instant ranged gap closer. That said, they have some champions with rather unique play-styles- such as Singed, Riven, and Fiddlesticks. Also, it doesn't take a fully unique mechanic to make a unique play-style: even Jax type champions have plenty of variation between them.

It is possible to watch a friend's game, with a delay, now. In-game voice chat is a preference thing as to whether or not abuse outweighs use in the eyes of the devs.

I would like the Meta to get shaken up in LoL, but the meta has shifted over time.

4v5 is always less than ideal, so I don't see it as anything close to a priority that they be fair.

I would like the rating system for LoL to recognize leavers.


My experience with Dota and Dota 2 is very minimal, so I can't comment too much on differences. However, from my limited, and possibly misinformed experience, using abilities to harass in lane seems far more punished in Dota than LoL, and I am personally not a fan of denying or the effects it has on the laning phase.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

07-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamer Rage View Post
You can't know which game is better unless you set a criteria for what better actually means.

League of Legends is a more casual and user friendly game than DotA is with a majority it's mechanics more cater toward a more teamfight based game... Many mechanics work toward balancing the power difference of both sides such as the inability to deny, the raise in bounty when killing, the drop in bounty when killed, ad/ap system, and the increase in mana type in comparison to it's predecessor dota. The map is also smaller and with the help of the back button makes it very difficult for a person to be too out of position for a teamfight. Respawning of raxes which is unique to LoL allows for long drawn out games where pushing is a less legitimate strat and often forces some sort of team confrontation.

DotA on the other hand is kind of like chess. Each hero is in LoL terms, "OP" but only if played well. I assume many of the LoL community have at one time or another heard the complaint that one hero in DotA can crush a whole team? That is true, but again, only if played well. Unlike the scaling in LoL, DotA has 25max levels and items are incredibly overpowered, with not only stat bonuses but both passive and active skills such as a 3.5sec stun+armor removal or +90dmg & 25% to crit for 250% dmg. I also assume that most of you have heard about denying, and death resulting in a loss of gold in addition to the whole AP does not scale in DotA period, but instead starts out strong. This ultimately means the APs that do not scale, although cannot become gods late in the game, have the power to decide who does, by means of babysitting and ganking. DotA also doesn't care all too much about balancing power because all the heroes are balanced and it's up to the players to keep each other's power in check. Unlike LoL there are also alternate methods of victory in DotA because the raxes do not respawn, the focus of the game is about finding a way to destroy the enemy base rather than buying power. This is possible because of the enlarged map along with no free teleports allowing for out of position situations. The map of DotA unlike LoL is infact all fair game and bushes are replaced by shadows and fog of war. Because of all this, there are more pressure on the player's awareness and skill level and therefor it is much more competitive than that of LoL. I am not saying that LoL is not competitive, simply that LoL is created to be casual.

Both games are fun but both games are also different and even designed for different people. DotA has more to offer, but is more always better? Anybody here can probably name a game that has more to offer than maplestory or farmville, but are they better? And if so please tell the millions of dedicated MS and Farmville players that their sense of fun is warped because your opinion is the right one. (I haven't played Maple since beta and I'm sorry of that's no longer the case). I've been in a game of dota where a team of 20kills won against a team with 50kills. Yes in DotA 1 guy can take down a team of 5 but DotA isn't about power, it's about finding a way to win, it's about strategizing. So for all the LoL players that don't understand DotA and claim that it's not a team game, it takes much more to strategize a team effort than to run in with 5 people. Both games requires teamwork, just different types of it. So what game is better? Depends on the person. Finally I apologize for comparing LoL to MS, but you guys know it's true. MS is not a bad game, just different. So to conclude, LoL is more casual and statistics have shown that casual games have been pretty successful so it is likely LoL will have a higher player base than that of DotA, but is it better? That is a whole different question all together.

Edit : For those who worship your Runes & Masteries, please refer to Extra Creditz Skinner Box & Extra Creditz Choice and Conflict. Both can be found on youtube and I'll link them below. It's basic psycology and you guys need to understand this to even begin to grasp what a good game is. In DotA there are no runes and masteries meaning the game begins at game start meaning choices are made in response to other's choices. DotA is based vastly on choices, but LoL from it's runes, masteries, ap/ad system, and many other mechanics are calculation based. DotA is designed around choices, LoL is designed around skinner boxing and calculations. Then again, most people like cookie cutter builds as it's more casual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c Skinner Box
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8fVtKyYxY Choice and Conflict

Please at the very least understand what makes a good game before running around arguing with people what games a good based on your feelings, that's what causes people to fly planes in buildings.
You don't provide great support to your claim that LoL is more casual.

I may be misunderstanding you though- how does Recall make positioning for a team-fight easy in LoL? Do you refer to only team-fights near the base when you say this?

How do shadows and fog of war put more pressure on laners than bushes to gank from? Or do you simply refer to Flash?

Tactics have been used in LoL that center around split pushing and avoiding a direct fight in high level play, utilizing champions with long-range teleport ultimates and/or good escape tools- it is just not the Meta right now.

I will admit that I personally prefer LoL Dominion to LoL Summoner's Rift because it is more objective based and far less gold level based.

LoL's team-fight focus, in my opinion, adds some depth to the game: where, when, and how initiation is done is extremely important, as is how a team targets and maneuvers in the team-fight. There are also ways to trick and force enemies into a disadvantageous team-fight: all of which take a coordinated team.

I'll agree that runes and masteries are calculations rather than choices sometimes- but they can also be used to customize a Champion to fit one's needs and play-style, like items. In Draft mode, summoner spells, runes, and mastery picks can allow players to respond to how the enemy team is choosing their champions- the game truly starts at ban and champion select.

I, personally, modify my Runes and Masteries to match my intended play-style with a champion- aside Jungling, which is more strict than other roles, there is plenty of room for preference and countering within the system.


That building comment at the end was quite uncalled for.


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Vrouge

Senior Member

07-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgus View Post
My experience with Dota and Dota 2 is very minimal, so I can't comment too much on differences. However, from my limited, and possibly misinformed experience, using abilities to harass in lane seems far more punished in Dota than LoL, and I am personally not a fan of denying or the effects it has on the laning phase.
You don't spam your abilities while laning early on in Dota games. It's a lot more focused on having options like auto-attacks with last hitting, denying, lane cutting, creep pulling, creep stacking, ward blocking etc... Denying adds another option to the laning phase. In LoL you're practically either last hitting or poking the enemy. You have more options in Dota. You can draw aggro from the creeps away from the lane, you can pull the side lane neutral camps into the lane to fight the lane creeps, you can effectively deny the enemy of potential gold and XP through the act of denying etc. If anything it creates aggression.


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FortifyOP

Member

07-05-2012

I tried dota2 and for some reason there are no surrenders, but also less ragers and less reporters, because there are a lot of dota veterans, but also people are made more humble by the depth of the game. So unlike LoL they don't have this very narrow range of acceptable actions and strategies that you get flamed at if you divert.

LoL and dota2 are similar, but kudos to LoL for being so innovative and making a different game, i played LoL more than most here, about 600 games, and i really loved Alistar before they ****ed him up (removed about 1.35ap ratios in total).

I guess LoL is still a good casual game, if you ignore that LoL jungle is actually more complicated than dota. LoL has individual respawn counters on every camps, jungle game can become very deep.


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Nate iKoN

Junior Member

07-19-2012

  • Dota 2 has icefrog to balance the game, when riot release a hero how many times do they have to rework it? Even S2 for Hon can not release a balanced hero to save there lives.

  • Also all this talk of meta game
  • LoL 99/100 times you buy the exact same items for each role. Heroes same Role, same lane, same everything. Sure some timings change, and big farm fest
  • Dota2 you have to buy the items according to your team comp, the other team, and there are abilities among some of the items adding more depth.

  • The Shops are not the difficult to figure out...you have a chicken that allows to pick up items for you so you don't even have to leave the lane, and there have been multiple team fights where I will fly in a sheep or a shivas that will change that team fight.

  • LoL is focused on a easy consistent game play style, where mistakes can be forgiven.
  • Dota requires a different set of skills that vary from every game you play.
  • Flash also is dumb in all honesty its a whopping 2150 in dota2 b/c of how versatile it is in team fights. I will admit playing LoL with my brother is frustrating when your walking around with already 3.5k worth of gear from dota before the game even starts
  • Best situation I have heard
  • LoL is like Checkers and Dota is 3d chess

  • I am so excited that Dota2 is going to be free.
  • I hope you guys who want to try to improve your style of play, improve on last hitting, and a more in depth game. I suggest giving dota a try, but it wont be any where close to LoL.

  • I will say one thing though if you dedicated a few months to Dota 2 (literally cared and learned the game) and then returned to LoL you would find your LoL game will improve.


    I have a challenge for everyone out there in the LoL community. If you play dota 2 for a few months and hate the game return to LoL, but I can promise you that you LoL game will improve.

    Just my 2 cents


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Kaoszkk

Junior Member

08-31-2012

Well, as a veteran and Competitive Dota player, first of all, i have played about 20 Lol games, all low level, and i can say some things, the games are completly different.

1.First of all, TAKE AWAY THE LOL idea, that ganks are for the kill money.... If mid gets a gank sucessfully, some things will happen: He will waste time not winning exp. That way, you will be underleveld comparing to your lane opponents, and they will: harras you more and may kill you, means you will farm less. More than that, you lose like 10 creeps in gold, and you will need to buy a Teleport, that is more 4 creeps. And for the ganker? Some exp and about 5 creeps in gold.... Got the difference?

2. Dota wins (for me) in:
-Graphics, lol gives me headaches.
-And all other points.

3.Lol wins in:
-Matchmaking time.
-Bad games ain't that bad, in Dota, if you get a noob (which i do not, since the Matchmaking is perfect after like 400 wins), you lose, you cant leave, and have to keep in that dam game for more 20 mins. I'm only saying this because you will get this, i dont anymore.

Now, about ''Metagame'', for you to understand, Dota's metagame is like fashion, it changes, but the heroes stay the same. That why i like dota, you can go push, you can go teamfight, you can go gankers, you can ****en try anything. Lol every game is that same thing. Yes, some times you will be asking yourself, WTF should i have done??? and that the beauty of the game. It was push some time ago, now its the ''pressure'', you make a team that makes the other team have to move around.

So yes, dota is better in every way, but i would say LoL is better. Why? Simple, i play in high tier Captains Mode In-house games, with the top 30 player of my country. I can count on every player in my team, and i know that. Every game is a hard game, you can see each ones player style, you know who will play on what hero (your cap chooses your team, you chose what hero in those 5) before they pick. And if i play bad? I won't, but what if i do? well, i'm out of there (''TS: You have been banned from the server''). Will you get to that level? Probably, no, so stick with LoL, or else, you will play 300 bad games, in 600, and never get anywere.

But, how to play dota then? Simple, play Pubs, get 5 friends from your plays, and make a ''team'', play together these 5, and just go on. Don't think you will get fun plays by playing alone, unless you have 500 wins, you will end up getting 5 carrys (auto-lose in dota) in your team.


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ManedWolf

Junior Member

09-22-2012

I have both games too, I barely played few games on Dota2 gotta admit that part but that doesnt mean I cannot have an opinion or make a comparison. I basically saw how Dota2 is too in other words. So I think i can refute the points you make lol because most of them didnt really seem true to me(that may also be because personal preferences ofc ). Oh btw to make it perfectly clear; I am not saying LoL is better or Dota2 is better I am just saying I prefer LoL and your points are definently refuteable.


Summoner Spells

Yes, LoL has them and Dota2 doesnt. I do not personally think Dota2 needs them because it is a very good game without them too lol. On the other side I think when you look at LoL summoner spells add much more fun and variety into game. For example ignite totally kills life steal chance so gives you a chance to kill champions that build OPed life steal items. Flash enables you to get out of really bad situations etc. They dont ruin game they add more challenge to it. They make game harder because it gives you something else that you should be aware of and that you should look out for. I like the idea of having a likelyhood of surviving through definently death situations with flash, I even like the challenge it gives when your enemy uses it to get away from you.


Ganking vs. Farming

Mid laner player leaving the lane for gank is not always a bad idea, if mid laner leaves the lane and gets blue for example it makes it really harder on his opponent or if the mid laner makes a succesful gank that means the ganked lane will get pushed. person who left the mid lane may lose a few minions but him or 1 of his teammates gets a kill and gets a chance to push the lane or even destroy the turret easily which helps the whole team and if gank fails well i guess ganks can fail on Dota2 too so it is a risk to take in both games. In other words it just depends on the skill of the players and their ability to make decisions if ganking is a good idea or not and ganks are very important and lethal in both games.


Hero/Champion Design

lmao this one is just funny. If you think all DPS are same you are so narrow minded about LoL. All of the champions having same amount of skills is just a sign of equality. Oh and btw champions like nidalee and jayce has more skills than others dont forget that. Every champion on LoL have a differnt skill set therefore they work differently even tho they are similar on role they have in teams. I do not know what is it about Dota2 players but they seem to think it is unnecessary for Riot to release new champions or something. I think thats just a dumb way of thinking because every champion has a different taste when using.


Game Features

Having a built in voice chat in game is a real good addition to game I cannot argue with that part but you can get over it just by using skype lol so it is not something that ruins it for you. It would be good to have in LoL though But again i dont think that is a part that makes Dota2 better than LoL its like saying LoL has different skins for champions and champions look better(you may not agree with that part again its because personal preferences) and Idk whats up with being able to spectate on Dota2 , you can do that on LoL too


Dota Lacks a Metagame

yea maybe Dota2 has more freedom about that part i guess thats true. Still if you want you can lane with any champion anywhere on LoL too you may be at disadvantage but if you are good enough u r likely to be ok but there are situations ofc where some champions basically suck about for example on mid lane. But i have used ad mid chars and done well too so there is no such thing as we must have an ap mid, thats what noobs think . And that logic goes for rest of the roles too, when players are good enough they can improvise ideas and change places like having a support and adc melee and a solo laner like diana or singed (not dps) it just depends on players ability and choice. But yea Dota2 probably has more freedom on that. then again i dont accept that LoL has boring and terrible game design, it just has an order and a proper way of playing.


4v5's Are Not Auto-Losses

Its not auto lose at all it makes it waaaaay harder though and mostly a lose even though its not as bad as 99%. But that is just why i think LoL is more of a team game than Dota2. Mostly you rely on ur team mates much much more unless you are fed as **** or something its so hard to win the games without teammates help. Also thats why there is punishment for constant AFKing or leaving game on LoL.

Better Rating System

I havent started ranked games yet even tho i player over 450+ games probably lol. If it is like u said I think it might b good to fix it on LoL. Still losing full exp from 4v5 lose means you will also gain full exp if ur opponents are 4 so it balances itself in a way. Lets say you screwed enemy team up and one of them got pissed and left the game just b4 nexus is going to be destroyed, that would mean u will get less rating because of an ******* even tho you can report you wont get ur rating back. So it kinda goes both ways.

Conclusion

I think both games are really good and it just depends on personal preferences about which one you like more. It is not maths it doesnt have a 1 true answer. I think we all should respect both games ( even though maybe some of the things i said might look disrespectful for Dota2, if it does, sorry) Like i said I just prefer LoL and i think both games are really good


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Davidt1234

Senior Member

09-29-2012

i never really thoight about it, but now i see y dota is better....and i rly understand about the meta....going ad carry forces u to bot...going ap makes ppl force u to go mid....sometimes im fine w/ it but it gets boring after a while.....