Dota 2 vs. LoL

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XenosKing

Senior Member

03-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runex4 View Post
I also recently got my dota 2 key and honestly if you are really unbiased and look at all the factors of both games they both have pros and cons. first I shall respond to the issues you have talked about:

Summoner spells:
admittedly, they are a unique part of LoL and perhaps they are a "crutch" for bad play as you say. However the two balancing factors of summoners is first, they are basically just extra spells avaliable to all heros. if someone else can flash you can too. and they allow for excellent calculated plays if used properly. while it's true they make things possible that otherwise would not be possible, that's part of LoL and honestly I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. LoL is its own game. the second balancing factor of summoners is they can allow for whole legions of unique strategies with the same hero. customizations of builds and lanes and gameplay purely based on the summoners a hero has. For example, someone can run teleport like hotshotGG did during hanover vs moscow 5. Just because he had teleport, a whole strategy that otherwise would've been impossible was possible and almost won them the game. Similar strats such as placing wards at baron or dragon to teleport on are also possible as a result of this. They can be "crutches" for bad play or tools for good play; it depends on the user.

Ganking vs farming:
admittedly one of the things that I don't like about LoL is that there is little punishment for deaths. I still believe ganking is more viable than you're giving it credit for however: if done properly, the mid pushes to tower which means the enemy mid is stuck at tower killing creeps which gives that mid freedom to gank while losing minimal farm and possibly getting his team kills, buff control, dragon, a tower, whatever. and ultimately, it's usually control of buffs, dragon, baron, and towers that wins the game in the long run, not just CS or kills. Both kills and CS are merely tools to help secure those other more important objectives (essential tools, but tools nontheless) Also, with the snowball meta, kills matter a lot more because 1 death means the enemy lane gets ahead; they get more CS, the gold from a kill, experience from being in lane, potentially getting or damaging your tower, and a chance to freely shove the lane and buy and come back with a gold advantage in items. It's not that it's meaningless or that farm is the only thing useful in LoL, it's just a different type of gameplay from Dota.

Hero/Champion Design
this one I agree with pretty much 100%. at this point the heros ARE getting cookie-cutter and boring in LoL and their more creative heroes are still lack-luster compared to the heros in Dota. I like that LoL is its own game and I don't think it's inherently worse than dota but I don't think they should gimp themselves on the creativity in making heros especially at this stage of the game where there're tons of heroes and the game is no longer new.

Game Features:
While Dota 2 does have some cute game features like the voice chat thing (a nice addition but skype/ventrillo are better quality and commonplace enough in my experience) and it IS nice to be able to spectate any game--that is a cool feature that I like and I admit the Riot crew has been pretty sloppy about actually adding new things. Dominion was a fantastic addition but they haven't done jack since then, they scrapped magma chamber entirely and all they've been doing is adding new heroes and no actual game features. and if they do change something they just mess with the already perfectly fine and established jungle in the summoner's rift. to Riot; Make something new and interesting!

that being said, Dota 2 has disappointed me with their features as well. While they do have a couple nice additions, they left some ridiculous minor things out; for example: in actual gameplay there is no way to hit a single button like TAB and see your team's Items or CS, you can do this easily when spectating but in game you have to freaking click individual heros to see what they have and there's no way to check enemy items unless they are on your screen at that time and if you move your champion the select goes right back to your champ. and having no way to see any CS but your own is ridiculous. not seeing the enemies' cs is mediocre but acceptable, not seeing your own team's CS is plain stupid. Also the pathing in Dota 2 is silly; I understand keeping the same map as Dota 1 and keeping a lot of the features the same in order to promote the same gameplay but as it is they've added literally NOTHING to dota. it's Dota with half the heros, no -rd, no -swap, and slightly better graphics that are FAR sub-standard to the modern age graphics. Compare Dota 1 to Dota 2 to the difference in graphics between Sc1 and Sc2. that's what i'd expect from a sequel to a great game like this. I don't see that they've done anything to improve; they've just re-made dota and updated the graphics very slightly, added a feature or 2 and are going to sell the same game for millions. I would expect MUCH more from a sequel and to be honest though I like Dota 2, I've been very disappointed overall.

I'm going to respond to the rest of your issues but this post is way to long as it is so I'm going to post this one first!
About the checking the items and everything, they made it like that on purpose because they dont want to make it too easy to see all of your enemy's items. There's going to be things like dust, wards, gem, smoke, and other utility items on your enemy. It would be too easy if everytime you see them, theres a scoreboard like thing that auto updates and you can check it whenever you want. They want to make it YOUR responsibility to check your opponent's items for yourself because it is a good habit to do that. Also you can assign the scoreboard to a hotkey, I wouldnt use TAB though be cause you have to use tab to control multiple units efficently. I usually use the f2 button. It shows everything except for your team and the enemy team's CS, and items. Like I said before, they hid information about the enemy because they want to make it your responsibility to check enemy heroes for their level, and item. From those two factors, you can tell how well they are doing anyways without only relying on CS and kills to tell if they are fed or not.
As for allies' CS, I'm not sure why u would want to know that, when you can see what items they have at all times and u can see their current gold as well.


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Ruby Larkspur

Senior Member

03-30-2012

Honestly, they should rename dota 2 to dota hd, the only thing "new" they brought to "2" was improved graphics


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Raging Hipster

Senior Member

03-30-2012

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Originally Posted by Ruby Larkspur View Post
Honestly, they should rename dota 2 to dota hd, the only thing "new" they brought to "2" was improved graphics
Not even close. They remade the heros to fit the engine, and improved greatly upon the games bugs. Don't use old strategies like camp stacking as a bug, because it isn't.


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nuganugas

Junior Member

03-30-2012

i only like lol better because for me dota was a bit hard to follow after half an hour of just figuring out how t obuy something at the shop and finding out my person wasnt the flying horse i was pretty bored of dota but i do like the variety of champs and the whole menu system


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I MAKE IT HAPPEN

Member

03-30-2012

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Originally Posted by Ajido View Post
League of Legends is to the MOBA genre as World of Warcraft is to MMORPGs. It's casual, accessible and fairly easy to play. This is why LoL will likely always have a larger player base, but it doesn't mean it's the better game.
There was a time when this wasn't always the case with WoW... The current state of it is just so sad.


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XhyHzy

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-01-2012

,


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poe tay toes

Senior Member

04-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajido View Post

Summoner Spells
i despise flash and think it is one of the major problems with lol. other than that, i enjoy summoner spells.


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Ganking vs. Farming
flash again is the problem. ganks aren't reliable because people will often flash out. with a better chance of success, people could become more willing to gank. without flash, taking teleport would help get you back into the fray quickly. perhaps adding a tp scroll or something would also help.


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Hero/Champion Design
i think the problem is that riot has been trying to churn out new champions every two weeks, so they've gotten into a cycle of releasing rehashed melee bruisers about every third release or so. this is a problem. i would prefer to see champ releases every month or so and more creative designs.

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Game Features
voice chat isn't something i want when playing with strangers, and when i play with friends i have vent. the spectator system is better, riot may need to scrap the adobe air launcher entirely and create their own to enable a smoother spectator and replay system.

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Dota Lacks a Metagame
this is a problem with the community. too many people are quick to jump on anyone who goes against the standard setup. there are plenty of successful alternatives, but playing with 4 random players, its rare to find a group that won't ostracize the guy who wants to run mid as caitlyn or a double ap bot lane.

to be fair, dota players can be just as bad. i was playing vengeful spirit as a damage dealer instead of support, was 7-0-3, and my teammates were abusing me constantly for being terrible. they abandoned me in bot lane against 3 people and any time i got into a fight my teammates immediately ran away, determined to see me not win the game.

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4v5's Are Not Auto-Losses
i would argue that this shows the flaws in dota's character balance. league is balanced around it being extremely difficult to make up for a numbers disadvantage and team play is essential. dota is balanced around heroes who can be teamwreckers if you get to late game, so if you can pamper them through the early phases, the number disadvantage doesn't matter.

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Better Rating System
i disagree with this as well. if i'm playing ranked, i accept that sometimes people will have bad games. sometimes people will disconnect or leave. these things aren't rampant problems in lol. if you put a modifier into the system that lessens the impact of a loss if you are shorthanded, how long will it take before it becomes expected that the guy who is doing worst (or is getting blamed for the loss) will leave the game for the benefit of the rest of the team's precious rating?

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Conclusion
i would say that lol is more accessible, its easier to get into it and have fun (which is the point of playing games). dota has an unnecessary burden of knowledge to attain competence and what i see as major problems in hero balance and design. i'll grant that it may be the better competitive game (i'm still not sold on that however), but in my eyes league is still the better game overall.

Quote:
I've had my say, I'm curious to hear from those still enjoying LoL why they think it's a better game. Everyone I've met that says LoL is better simply isn't good at Dota and has no valid reasons for liking it more.
ah, you're one of those "you don't like dota so clearly you're just bad at it" types. i think dota was good and i enjoyed it back in the day. i think that lol is an improvement on that base formula, and despite its flaws, it is still the better game. a graphics rehash isn't the only thing dota needed.


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Vrouge

Senior Member

04-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by poe tay toes View Post
i think that lol is an improvement on that base formula, and despite its flaws, it is still the better game. a graphics rehash isn't the only thing dota needed.
Yet the reality is that Dota 2, while still in beta, is already looking way more polished than LoL ever has been. The production quality of Dota 2 just dwarfs that of any other moba. Whether or not you enjoy its gameplay is up to you, but the game itself is of a higher quality.


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srkfx

Senior Member

04-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by poe tay toes View Post


i would argue that this shows the flaws in dota's character balance. league is balanced around it being extremely difficult to make up for a numbers disadvantage and team play is essential. dota is balanced around heroes who can be teamwreckers if you get to late game, so if you can pamper them through the early phases, the number disadvantage doesn't matter.
I dota you can sell leaver items,making rest of your team stronger.You can't win 5v4 against serious opponents,but if 4 of you are better,you will win.Because,you know,you deserved win by playing better than enemy.


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Seanmadze

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Senior Member

04-03-2012

I love LOL but Dota 2 has alot of cool things I like in it But it needs the rest of the heros, and after LOL I hate the buyback and losing gold on death thing and the fact that a intentional feeder value stays high, the items of dota are way better then LOL and the interface with dota2 tv is awesome
I also dislike the auto attack response of dota