Ryze and Blue Buff

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MorikTheMad

Senior Member

03-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHlTFACED View Post
by 20 mins in, ryze should have 401% cdr and 2k+ mana. If he still needs blue buff tell him to go fly a kite.
2k mana will net you only 2 full combos. His mana regen is sufficient for an additional full combo every 4 minutes before he has archangel's (which he will NOT have at 20 minutes).

I guess you don't need your ryze throwing spells around more than a couple times before recalling?

(Link to math is at the top of page 2 of this thread.)


Further, the Ryze's who build 0/21/9 will not have 40% CDR at 20 minutes (or ever, unless they have CDR runes). Once the shroud is done, they have around 30%, which creeps up to 33.2% by lvl 18. Upgrading to FH gives 38.2%.

Just because you assume all Ryze's build in some way, or that Ryze's spells are free, doesn't mean its true.


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B1AZE L0RD

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Member

04-12-2012

never give blue to mid


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Current Event

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Senior Member

04-12-2012

Wait, did you give him a blue?


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alaskaneagle

Senior Member

04-12-2012

54367

I play ryze often, with blue I can kill a team. Without I can kill a person.

With the mana and CDR it gives ryze can chain his spells enough to hit his Q about 8 times without stopping at all. Then do it again after 1 or 2 seconds.

He is definitly going to benefit more than anyone else.


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NickPham

Senior Member

04-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaneagle View Post
54367

I play ryze often, with blue I can kill a team. Without I can kill a person.

With the mana and CDR it gives ryze can chain his spells enough to hit his Q about 8 times without stopping at all. Then do it again after 1 or 2 seconds.

He is definitly going to benefit more than anyone else.
I dunno why I came back to this thread. Anyhow, it bugs me that you treating blue buff as how Ryze gets CDR, and you are acting like he is dying for the mana. Considering he is perfectly capable of capping his CDR alone, and ends up with an insane mana pool, I'd say that there are lots of champions who benefit more from Blue Buff than Ryze does.

Ryze has almost no mana problems after his tear. There is bound to be at least one hero on your team that actually does have some mana problems later in the game. If you feel like Blue Buff is something you MUST have on Ryze, you probably aren't getting your Glacial fast enough.

I've already posted it, but I can't emphasize it enough. RoA is good, but it delays Glacial too much. After that it'd be too big of a delay for your Negatron+FH. After that, it's not even viable over Void and Hextech Revolver.


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Blitkun

Junior Member

04-17-2012

Ryze: "Oh, I want blue"
Jungler: "Owkay"
Of course the added CDR and mana Regen will benefit Ryze. He can get OOM quite easily because his skills consume a lot of mana, and he spams A LOT. But.
Jungler: "Oops, killed blue"
Ryze: "lol no problem bro"
Ridiculous attitude - leaving a game because had no blue? Come on, as if he was born with blue. So immature.


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defleppardruelz

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Senior Member

04-17-2012

ryze doesn't "need" 4th blue just like junglers don't need smite, or leashes, or carries need heal, or champions with built in flashes don't need flash. but giving it to him is much better than having it as a jungle, even if it's the 4th or 5th one. the only non mage champion i would give it to is kog.


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alaskaneagle

Senior Member

04-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickPham View Post
I dunno why I came back to this thread. Anyhow, it bugs me that you treating blue buff as how Ryze gets CDR, and you are acting like he is dying for the mana. Considering he is perfectly capable of capping his CDR alone, and ends up with an insane mana pool, I'd say that there are lots of champions who benefit more from Blue Buff than Ryze does.

Ryze has almost no mana problems after his tear. There is bound to be at least one hero on your team that actually does have some mana problems later in the game. If you feel like Blue Buff is something you MUST have on Ryze, you probably aren't getting your Glacial fast enough.

I've already posted it, but I can't emphasize it enough. RoA is good, but it delays Glacial too much. After that it'd be too big of a delay for your Negatron+FH. After that, it's not even viable over Void and Hextech Revolver.
54367

I'll say this again in a different way. 1v1 ryze doesn't have the mana problems and has enough cdr to burst a champ to death pretty easy.

When it comes to a team fight he will run out of mana and have to stall his burst if he doesn't have blue.

Basically I have issues casting 30 spells in a row without pausing without blue buff.

so let me put it to you this way, would you rather your kog spitting at one or two guys, or your ryze going off like a machine gun spamming everyone with dmg to the point they all run scared everytime they see him becasue he slaughtered them all in 5 to 6 seconds because he had blue...

As far as the ryze leaving, he sounds like a stupid troll to me, report him and move on.


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OwlMechanic

Senior Member

04-17-2012

I'd agree with alaska there.

Blue buff is nice because it allows the miniscule gap in your chain to be covered up in a team fight (because it's basically w/e/q/r/w/q/e .5sec gap)

As for NEEDING it after tear is somewhat charged or i have my catalyst/glacial certainly not, it's nice, but if it's a jungler who actually has mana they are probably gonna make more use of it than i am at that point by either jungling faster or ganking more often. (say amu/ww/nunu etc)

Wanting it though? Even outside of team fights it lets you last hit with your spells, and that means your ult comes off cd faster, which means you get extra sustain.

As jungler you should be trusted to make that judgement call, or in some circumstances (like when they are being babies about it) ward their blue and try to give yours to your carry and steal theirs.


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cpandarun

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Senior Member

04-17-2012

Even as other AP carries I don't always find the blue buff necessary past levels 11+. Sure it helps sure I'm gonna go oom after a team fight but it's not omg I'm gonna quite because I can't play this game now. As Ryze I don't need the buff after I get Tear and Catalyst he just doesn't need it unless teamfights are getting really really pushed early.