Ryze and Blue Buff

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MorikTheMad

Senior Member

03-07-2012

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...5#post21542165

I did some math there--go look.

And some ryze's like to build 0/21/9, with no CDR runes.
At the 4th blue buff, thats about 30/31% CDR. The buff helps. With ryze's passive, CDR is better for ryze than for other champs. (All his abilities cool down a bit faster, meaning he can use them again faster, meaning they cool down his other abilities faster.

Late game, yes, ryze has maxed CDR (or close enough), but can still go OOM. If there are other mages who need blue, he CAN give it up, but will need to go b in a bit, or run out of mana at an inopportune time. You can spam out combos really fast, and drain all your mana very quickly without blue buff.


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chinfinger

Senior Member

03-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nores View Post
I main ryze (over 260 ranked games). If you dont give him every blue buff you severly gimping him. He needs blue early to charge his tear and late game he needs it for CDR and mana still (when sieging tower for example he can actually OOM if he keeps constant harrass of enemy team).

Yes 4k mana is alot .And yes you can run out in prolonged engagements.Ryze with blue is scary -ryze without is a gimp who can be bullied out of the lane .
and your 1261 elo. Which just proves that you don't know what you are talking about and are therefore validating my point even more. thank you.


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corallein

Senior Member

03-07-2012

Doesn't much sound like what you care other people think.


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chinfinger

Senior Member

03-07-2012

I want opinions from higher ranked people. those who i strive to become good as one day. not 1200s elo opinions.


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Devious Rogue

Senior Member

03-07-2012

I've never actually needed Blue Buff as Ryze. I mean, yeah, it gives him a very slight edge, but really, he can keep up with the game well enough by himself and he only runs out of mana when:
1) You don't have your Tear yet (VERY early game, it's natural)
2) You have over 1k-3k gold (early to late game) and you've put off going back for a while
3) You have been engaged in a sustained one-sided harassment campaign against multiple opponents who either have great sustain (AP Yi, Morde) or have tag-teamed and backed to keep up.


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Devious Rogue

Senior Member

03-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nores View Post
I main ryze (over 260 ranked games). If you dont give him every blue buff you severly gimping him. He needs blue early to charge his tear and late game he needs it for CDR and mana still (when sieging tower for example he can actually OOM if he keeps constant harrass of enemy team).

Yes 4k mana is alot .And yes you can run out in prolonged engagements.Ryze with blue is scary -ryze without is a gimp who can be bullied out of the lane .
Ryze has at least 35% CDR mid-late game from Masteries (10%), Q (10%) and Glacial Shroud (15%). Since it caps at 40%, Blue Buff barely makes enough of a difference to notice. Also, if he runs out of mana late game, he's either against at least several opponents with insane sustain (AP Yi) or his opponents have all backed at some point to heal the damage and in that case, he would have teamates with smaller mana pools and larger CDs who would benefit more from the Buff.


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NickPham

Senior Member

03-08-2012

I play Dota 2 mostly now adays, but recently been playing a bit of LoL again with my friends cuz I missed Ryze. He's a pretty big part of how I got to 1600 in Season 1.

Ryze will want as many early blue buffs as convenient, but is not dependent on them. Not getting a blue buff is never grounds for QQ on Ryze, cuz he plays fine without it. Obviously he's amazing with capped CDR and will want blue buff until he has his glacial. Usually this shouldn't be past the 3rd spawn. 4th if you are doing badly or need to rush a Negatron Cloak, which happens often enough.

In general 1st blue goes to jungler. 2nd one is great on him, but sometimes can't be spared and that's OK. 3rd one allows him to rush catalyst before glacial, which does wonders for Ryze, so try to at least get this one. Anything past that is emergency/luxury. Make sure you don't ever buy RoA. It slows Ryze down from items he needs way too much, and is weaker than many other choices in the late game when he has his core finished. Basically those who are suffering because they can't always have blue on Ryze are people buyin RoA, don't be one of them.

Blue is never absolutely necessary on Ryze. At 20% CDR he can still throw QWEQ combo with great effect. Also, for a mere 250 gold you can get an additional 10% for 2 and half minutes with an elixir. Great if you don't have full masteries yet. Also the mana regen isn't a high priority. You don't need to spam as soon as you get your tear, do some reasonable mana conservation early on. You'll max out tear regardless. Hope that helps.


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Devious Rogue

Senior Member

03-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickPham View Post
I play Dota 2 mostly now adays, but recently been playing a bit of LoL again with my friends cuz I missed Ryze. He's a pretty big part of how I got to 1600 in Season 1.

Ryze will want as many early blue buffs as convenient, but is not dependent on them. Not getting a blue buff is never grounds for QQ on Ryze, cuz he plays fine without it. Obviously he's amazing with capped CDR and will want blue buff until he has his glacial. Usually this shouldn't be past the 3rd spawn. 4th if you are doing badly or need to rush a Negatron Cloak, which happens often enough.

In general 1st blue goes to jungler. 2nd one is great on him, but sometimes can't be spared and that's OK. 3rd one allows him to rush catalyst before glacial, which does wonders for Ryze, so try to at least get this one. Anything past that is emergency/luxury. Make sure you don't ever buy RoA. It slows Ryze down from items he needs way too much, and is weaker than many other choices in the late game when he has his core finished. Basically those who are suffering because they can't always have blue on Ryze are people buyin RoA, don't be one of them.

Blue is never absolutely necessary on Ryze. At 20% CDR he can still throw QWEQ combo with great effect. Also, for a mere 250 gold you can get an additional 10% for 2 and half minutes with an elixir. Great if you don't have full masteries yet. Also the mana regen isn't a high priority. You don't need to spam as soon as you get your tear, do some reasonable mana conservation early on. You'll max out tear regardless. Hope that helps.
Not really. His core is Sorc/Mercs, Tear, Catalyst, Shroud. Then he can work on ROAs because they give more mana than anything else that's not a Tear variant, as well as some nice HP. (And AP too, I guess)


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NickPham

Senior Member

03-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious Rogue View Post
Not really. His core is Sorc/Mercs, Tear, Catalyst, Shroud. Then he can work on ROAs because they give more mana than anything else that's not a Tear variant, as well as some nice HP. (And AP too, I guess)
It is almost never safe to run around with 30 MR for so long after you finished that core. Buying the negatron is mandatory, but any delays in buying RoA lower its viability greatly. With the sheer damage Tear alone gives at that point in the game Void or Abyssal followup will give more damage than RoA, and the last item slot is generally spell vamp. IE, skipping RoA does will not give you a weaker mid game, but gives you a much safer one, and results in a stronger end game.

Skip it. It's a viable item, but at the same time it simply does not fit optimally into Ryze's build.


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2Heavy GoLeafs

Senior Member

03-09-2012

by 20 mins in, ryze should have 401% cdr and 2k+ mana. If he still needs blue buff tell him to go fly a kite.