Will we get Pulsefire Ezreal?

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hi im randall

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Because Pulsefire Ezreal is not the most important thing we can do. It's a cool skin and important, but Scorched Earthing the rest of our releases for a skin would be really foolish.

It's as simple as that - we could drop everything and do this, but it would be dumb to do so. Just because it's the single most important release to you doesn't mean that speaks to how to engage players in general. Non-Ezreal players, non-paying players (who there are a lot of!) want all sorts of things that aren't this skin.

You COULD ignore all your friends, ignore dating, sell all your things, live in a tent and focus 100% on your career to get there a bit faster, that doesn't mean it's generally a good idea to do so.

(This can be frustrating, because this is how reality works in general, and it's not hard to understand).
It's frustrating because you guys released another legendary skin, condemning Pulsefire Ezreal to your "to-do" stack for another 3-4 months. After you put the skin in the client (where you KNEW it was going to be datamined), people were thinking it would be released within a reasonable time frame. Thus, another legendary is a real kick to the wrong area.

I don't think most reasonable people are expecting you guys to drop everything to finish this skin. Moreover, they know it isn't feasible. But watching another legendary roll out the door, in addition to the 4-7 skins that are released each month (for the past 5 months), doesn't really give the community any confidence in you when you act like you guys are diligently working on the skin.


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Hordemoo

Junior Member

04-26-2012

It's just as they said. Just because they released another legendary skin doesn't mean that they're completely ignoring it. Pulsefire Ezreal isn't Riot's number 1 priority (shocker, I know). To the community, we might be camping at our laptops constantly throwing dollar bills at the monitor until the skin goes on sale, but to the developers there's probably a lot more important tweaks to make for the majority of League of Legends players. (i.e. non-ezreal players, people who don't buy skins, etc.) I'm confident they're working their hardest on the skin to get it released, and I don't think accusing them of being lazy is the answer :/


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Riku

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RANDALLlolol View Post
It's frustrating because you guys released another legendary skin, condemning Pulsefire Ezreal to your "to-do" stack for another 3-4 months. After you put the skin in the client (where you KNEW it was going to be datamined), people were thinking it would be released within a reasonable time frame. Thus, another legendary is a real kick to the wrong area.

I don't think most reasonable people are expecting you guys to drop everything to finish this skin. Moreover, they know it isn't feasible. But watching another legendary roll out the door, in addition to the 4-7 skins that are released each month (for the past 5 months), doesn't really give the community any confidence in you when you act like you guys are diligently working on the skin.
I believe he was saying that they have been working on it continuously, not putting it off. However, they didn't put ALL of their skin teams on one skin. They are keeping the rest of the champs and skins moving along while they work on Ezreal.

I'm certain we will be seeing Ezreal shortly!


Edit:

Read this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I see a lot of sentiments such as "why can't you dedicate more resources" or "you've hired so many people so therefore you can do it faster", suggesting there's some cross-departmental magic that we can employ to dogpile on a single feature without making it a logistical nightmare. This is simply not the case.

Think about it this way, even if we did take a significant amount of people and redirect them in a way to address a single feature, in this case, a single piece of content that in scope is tiny compared to the majority of ongoing game content release, simply throwing people at the problem can muddy the process. As the saying goes "It takes 9 months to make a baby, no matter how many mothers you have." Meaning, you can throw as many people as you want, willy-nilly, at the problem and it will still take the appropriate time it needs to come to fruition. Much like you can't simply throw money at a complex problem to make it go away, dedicating people simply for the purpose of dedicating gets us nowhere.

We go about a lot of content by organizing very specialized teams who's members are experts. We're cherry-picking the appropriate people for the component of the job. In this case it's at the very least, (in terms of art) a concept artist, character artist/texture artist, particle artist, rigger, animator, all possibly having multiples of each depending on the need. That doesn't include specialized people for QA, release, and the various producers or task managers who break down the work and assume ownership of the product, nor designers, again, multiple ones, who are assessing the gameplay implications of our visual enhancements. All for a little piece of content! For Ezreal, these tasks require a lot of time and a lot of people, but adding more people to that would have only broken up the work into smaller pieces where it would be harder to consolidate. You can have a master oversee their responsibilities, possibly with assistance, but you can't spread the work so thin to where it becomes inconsistent because people can't communicate with some behemoth of a group. Though it takes time, our process makes things come out with an emphasis on quality.

This is just me mainly speaking of art. It's hard for me to speak for anything technical or release based. Also, I can't even begin to explain any outside bugs or QA issues that are outside of Champion or Skins. There are obviously issues that are outside of my experience which I can't address, but I'm sure each department deals with their own respective issues in the best way possible, including bringing on new people. But as I've explained, throwing people at the problem isn't always the solution. That baby is still going to take 9 months to make!


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Newguy9854

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Bump


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Shinzoku

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Shh... I'm bumping this threadzor!


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

04-26-2012
33 of 95 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RANDALLlolol View Post
It's frustrating because you guys released another legendary skin, condemning Pulsefire Ezreal to your "to-do" stack for another 3-4 months. After you put the skin in the client (where you KNEW it was going to be datamined), people were thinking it would be released within a reasonable time frame. Thus, another legendary is a real kick to the wrong area.

I don't think most reasonable people are expecting you guys to drop everything to finish this skin. Moreover, they know it isn't feasible. But watching another legendary roll out the door, in addition to the 4-7 skins that are released each month (for the past 5 months), doesn't really give the community any confidence in you when you act like you guys are diligently working on the skin.
I consider your frustration valid. However, I do not agree with your categorization of our process as "condemning". I think you assume that we knew that the current state of improvements was planned. That's what we've established here. We started out with something really cool which created the opportunity to make something even cooler. We didn't put in the content to be jerks, we did it while not knowing it's full potential. When we did realize it's full potential, we decided to re-evaluate and then add more features. We're in content creation, we have to be agile, our products and processes will continue to evolve. I would think that people would understand that there is a certain amount of serendipity to content creation where as the product continues developing and the bar of quality raises to the point that we are presented with a choice to bring it over the top.

What I believe I'm reading is that you feel as though rolling out a legendary skin is somehow a slap in the face. Is that right? What if I told you that Galio didn't start out as a legendary skin? Quality creep isn't necessarily an isolated incident, in any operation. Galio started from humble beginnings and then, like Ezreal, developed into something with some amazing potential, mainly because of how many opportunities our talented artists and technicians saw and took advantage of. Before we knew it, a really neat idea had surpassed a particular quality bar and required the attention needed to push it over the top.

If you've read the contents of this thread, or at least the parts posted by Morello and myself, you'll understand a bit more as to how content generation works. I'm sure you realize that a single piece of content isn't the only thing we're working on. It's not something we can dogpile on effectively as people are requesting. That's part of the equation though, we can't let a new development such as quality improvement stop us from our other content generation. Stuff still has to get done. Other skins/champions/features have been planned well beforehand and during PFE's development. We have to be agile enough to handle everything. That may mean shifting priorities. That's what we've done here. Simply because PFE has to marinate longer in the oven doesn't mean we can or should turn off every appliance that's cooking.

In terms of community confidence, that's why Morello and I have taken it upon ourselves to address this and speak about what we can. We're trying to give insight into areas which we know have been a little opaque. In the future we plan on talking about more features. Morello and I have conferred with people who'd like to see us on point to message properly on some of these issues like PFE situations, champion visual overhauls and other reworks.

You'll see more of that from us in particular in the near future, as well as some insight from people like Ohmikegoodness who can get into the nitty-gritty about some of the technical aspects on the art and animation side.

Hopefully all this proves to be helpful.


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Newguy9854

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Cool, Also while you're here, can you give us an ETA on the skin? Even if it is VERY rough.


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urmamasllama

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I consider your frustration valid. However, I do not agree with your categorization of our process as "condemning". I think you assume that we knew that the current state of improvements was planned. That's what we've established here. We started out with something really cool which created the opportunity to make something even cooler. We didn't put in the content to be jerks, we did it while not knowing it's full potential. When we did realize it's full potential, we decided to re-evaluate and then add more features. We're in content creation, we have to be agile, our products and processes will continue to evolve. I would think that people would understand that there is a certain amount of serendipity to content creation where as the product continues developing and the bar of quality raises to the point that we are presented with a choice to bring it over the top.

What I believe I'm reading is that you feel as though rolling out a legendary skin is somehow a slap in the face. Is that right? What if I told you that Galio didn't start out as a legendary skin? Quality creep isn't necessarily an isolated incident, in any operation. Galio started from humble beginnings and then, like Ezreal, developed into something with some amazing potential, mainly because of how many opportunities our talented artists and technicians saw and took advantage of. Before we knew it, a really neat idea had surpassed a particular quality bar and required the attention needed to push it over the top.

If you've read the contents of this thread, or at least the parts posted by Morello and myself, you'll understand a bit more as to how content generation works. I'm sure you realize that a single piece of content isn't the only thing we're working on. It's not something we can dogpile on effectively as people are requesting. That's part of the equation though, we can't let a new development such as quality improvement stop us from our other content generation. Stuff still has to get done. Other skins/champions/features have been planned well beforehand and during PFE's development. We have to be agile enough to handle everything. That may mean shifting priorities. That's what we've done here. Simply because PFE has to marinate longer in the oven doesn't mean we can or should turn off every appliance that's cooking.

In terms of community confidence, that's why Morello and I have taken it upon ourselves to address this and speak about what we can. We're trying to give insight into areas which we know have been a little opaque. In the future we plan on talking about more features. Morello and I have conferred with people who'd like to see us on point to message properly on some of these issues like PFE situations, champion visual overhauls and other reworks.

You'll see more of that from us in particular in the near future, as well as some insight from people like Ohmikegoodness who can get into the nitty-gritty about some of the technical aspects on the art and animation side.

Hopefully all this proves to be helpful.
after reading threads and posts like this on both your side and his for quite some time i have come to a conclusion which would probably be ignored if it were said by a red

YOU GUYS DO A HELL OF A LOT MORE WORK BEHIND THE SCENES THAN YOU LET ON

or are possibly allowed to by pr


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Demonyte

Member

04-26-2012

just release the skin before december 2012... I want to at least try it before **** happens


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BuzzJack

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Member

04-26-2012

How about an art spotlight that shows the process of developing a skin.