AD Fizz is better than AP Fizz for TT Soloers!

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Soup4

Senior Member

04-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
That is a weird analysis to make but i would be curious as to your method for arriving at this. How do you determine someone's normal queue ELO?
You have 50+ more losses than wins; thus he can assume your elo is below 1200.


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Raybow

Junior Member

06-25-2012

AD FIZZ = BETTER I've actually NEVER played AP fizz. Surprising? I thought that with his W passive would be great with ad, i've mained fizz ever since lol.


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Wow Such Juke

Senior Member

06-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjapikachu717 View Post
AD FIZZ = BETTER I've actually NEVER played AP fizz. Surprising? I thought that with his W passive would be great with ad, i've mained fizz ever since lol.
How can you say AD is better when you've never played AP?


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Sandnigher

Junior Member

06-25-2012

AD fiz is good in some circumstances... the problem with it (Mabye not in TT) is that he has to constantly attack somone witout any other players interfering with burst damage and/or CC, which is incredibly prevalent in 5v5 and dominion and sometimes even 3v3. I prefer AP fizz because i can destroy the carry without having to stay in the battle for too long.AD fizz is probably better in lane because he can dish out constant damage without dealing with being perfect.. Also i cant think of an ad build that implements cool down reduction, which is great for your e when your constantly hoping around dodging skill shots and getting away. AD fizz also doesnt help your shark watsoever while ap fizz compliments all his moves and can even drain people just with your W which is a great move. The one thing i would change would be the skill order which i say E should be maxed 2nd solely on the reduced CD, which is needed. Both AD and AP fizzes dominate games if they are super pros. Just a hint to both types of fizz players BE BUSH *****S.


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Lizto

Senior Member

06-25-2012

You sound like youre trying to sell something, AD Fizz is da bes, da bes, da bes.. Still not convinced? well how about I tell you hes da bes

You didnt give any numbers or give any proof that hes any good, you just kept saying hes amazing without anything to back your word.

Im not saying AD Fizz is bad, in fact, I have ONLY played AD Fizz, but you seriously sound like youre just trying to sell a product, Im pretty sure Lee Sin, Yorick, Udyr will DESTROY Fizz to such extent that Fizz will be reported by everyone. Why do I say that? because Ive done it, Fizz just doesnt have what it takes to outdamage them and even if he won a trade- which Id say would be an amazing feat for a Fizz- they would still sustain with their skills so he would still end up losing the lane.


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Tactileneck

Senior Member

06-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizto View Post
You sound like youre trying to sell something, AD Fizz is da bes, da bes, da bes.. Still not convinced? well how about I tell you hes da bes

You didnt give any numbers or give any proof that hes any good, you just kept saying hes amazing without anything to back your word.

Im not saying AD Fizz is bad, in fact, I have ONLY played AD Fizz, but you seriously sound like youre just trying to sell a product, Im pretty sure Lee Sin, Yorick, Udyr will DESTROY Fizz to such extent that Fizz will be reported by everyone. Why do I say that? because Ive done it, Fizz just doesnt have what it takes to outdamage them and even if he won a trade- which Id say would be an amazing feat for a Fizz- they would still sustain with their skills so he would still end up losing the lane.
At the beginning of the season I played around with AD fizz and found that early game he's crushed to anybody that's got a few decent burst abilities like Yorick, Riven, even good Olafs, and when you're beat down early like that you're pretty hosed late also


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Muff N Dive

Junior Member

06-27-2012

AP fizz has the burst that only a good veigar or Leblanc player know. When playing AP fizz mid i regularly call out first blood mid to a double kill top.. for 3-0 before lvl 6.. It gets my team thinking if ill really be able to do it and usually i do, but it gets them playing more serious aswell so it works out either way... i play a very very aggressive fizz.. many times ill have to kite two even three of them away as i jump all over them while making my escape through just jungle.. the O.P. is right fizz has many behind the scenes actions that are only seen by fizz..

Where i agree with ad fizz being a great great fighter i find that when your in a tight situation and there's no escape.. turning 500+AP into a half second burst on an over chasing kill Stealer is far better then the ability to go toe to toe.. i use my fizz like a sivir boomerang.. if im using my e for damage ill use my q for retreat in the opposite direction expected.. i prefer the trickster fizz.. i can be tricky enough to where if i go in and die its bc im trolling.

Played like kassadin where the only time you go in is when your going to win is just about everytime for fizz.. you can Dodge many spells by simply running through the enemy champ .. Cass and lux ults i Dodge frequently by moving through the caster.. i also frequently Dodge spells from Morse(e/q) if he tries to q u close to a minion and he has targeted u using a right click as opposed to an A click. He Morse will move a step or maybe none and attack a minion with a q while u are still on troll pole.. he's the ultimate trickster and i frequently build zhonyas for the ultimate troll. U always try to get focused in a fight.. two well timed troll poles busing zhonyas and the e can shake not only 4 something seconds of damage.. but also any CC they might use making it easier for your team to focus and chase with no regard..

I find AP fizz played smart with skill and style trumps and bruiser champ. :) although ad fizz is certainly hard to stop basically by being a bruiser.. he doesn't have that burst that i use to take 1v3s out one at a time.


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Prolapse

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
Check out This Vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl82VHpLKrw

And here is a pic from another AD player who reported 20 wins in a row (at least 10 in normal solo)....

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/tc4b9


There is no doubt about it. AD Fizz is one of the best kept secrets in LoL.

This after testing every possible combination of AD/AP and Hybrid Fizz builds. (Please note, this has only been tested for TT soloing, not premades or ranked). Although, I think a case can be made for AD Fizz in these arenas as well. I am going to try this in SR ranked and hope I don't get banned by ignorant meta players. Wish me luck.

Anyway, I found while testing this idea, I took A LOT of heat. "NOOB!" was the most frequently used term, "IDIOT!" was fairly common as well. I even had my own team mates say... Fizz is my main, and AP is the only way to play him. you are going to cost us this game, you dumb***" I say, "Whatever, We'll see".

O.k. Admittedly, I had a bunch of bad (horrible) games at the early going until I figured out the optimum build and the uniquely different play style that AD Fizz requires over AP Fizz. I would say I lost 16 out of my first 20 games and almost gave up myself so, perhaps some of these angry comments were justified...

Furthermore, I imagine that anyone who has tried AD Fizz has experienced the same struggles I did early on and likely gave up the quest and defaulted to the easier commonly accepted AP Fizz builds. And thus,. I have yet to read a guide that even tries to make AD Fizz work. AD Fizz and his power has til now never come to light!

BUT! after the first 20 games, I started to figured out a very efficient right build order and I also started to understand that I could not play AD Fizz the same way I was used to playing AP Fizz. With this new fresh approach, it was like the clouds opened up and I could start to see things very clearly.

Simply put AD Fizz is a MONSTER IN HIDING! - Unbelievably and surprisingly strong. I am not over stating this!. AD Fizz can TOP LANE Against anyone and DOMINATE. AD Fizz goes 1 V 1s vs OLAF, YI, Tryn, Riven, Fiora, XIN!!! et. al and WINS! (assuming equal gold), every time!

The reason why AD Fizz is a powerhouse killer is because of his W and they way it works under the surface]. WOW! I can not say enough about this skill.

Seastone Trident is perhaps the most underrated skill in the game. The auto "Grevious Wounds" part coupled with ACCELERATING DAMAGE, and D.O.T. as icing on the cake.

Seastone Trident completely messes up your opponent's timing and sustainability - God help them.

Coupled with a well timed Playful Trickster and the also very underrated Urchin Strike will make your opponent's head spin. Your Ult? SHARK! Well let me just say as a finisher on a runner, I laugh every time I hear the "CHOMP!" - you have slain an opponent..

AD Fizz can out damage, out sustain and gank better than ANY other Melee champ - IMHO -. I know that's a very bravado claim to make, but I have slowly but surely been proving it my last 30 games or so.

The only down side of this build and AD Fizz, is you have to be very very good with your timing. . You need to get into FROG ZEN MODE. What I mean by that is you need to develop an almost intuitive sense of timing on when to use your skill set - too early or too late and you will lose important battles that you should have otherwise won. You have to understand and get very familiar with your your hidden talents. Fizz does so much behind the scenes, that opponents just cant react effectively. They won't know how to counter you, they won't know how to kill you and they won't know how to get away from you. No joke folks.

For example, you can actually do the following against a well fed ASHE carry....

Turn on Ghost, Run towards her, DODGE her ult with E as you land on her with with it. NICE!!! Steroid up with W, Poke her. She runs and turns to slow you. Close the GAP a second time with a Q skate, and she is already almost dead. She runs again but this time to scared to try to slow you. Poke, Poke. Poke, Dead. Every time! IF necessary fling your shark at her just to be sure. You can even do this while she is protected by her turret!

In fact, you can take out almost any champ at their own turret at 50% health with Q, W, poke, E, poke, shark, poke, poke, bail and live! The shark and DOT will finish the job. Your E will lose the turret aggro. It's a beautiful thing to watch and one of the most satisfying turret dive combos you will ever pull off.

I actually had one opponent say that they thought they were watching the Matrix. after seeing me perform the above two actions. They were both mesmerized and demoralized at the same time

O.k. so those of you familiar with AP Fizz will say, "but AP fizz can do all those things as well." TRUE, he can, but it's not really the same. AP Fizz does not have the initial delivery plus follow up and or finishing potential of the continuous, relentless, accelerating hurt that AD Fizz has! Instead of using your skills as the majority of your damage, you use your skills to initiate, trap, and finish. The Toe to Toe damage output does the rest.

By making AD your primary damage source, your skill package can now be used with significantly more flexibility. You can use your skills as you need them and at the right times. In contrast, AP Fizz REQUIRES you to dish out your entire payload in one giant burst and hope it works! If you play smart, avoid all ganks, hit with your R everytime Etc. Etc. AP Fizz looks like a real good bet. But if not, AP Fizz is meh.

AD Fizz has so much more to offer over AP Fizz and can contribute even if you are having a sub par game. This Includes, jungling, minion chewing, taking down turrets, defending turrets and even damage soaking.

Any utility type role is at your disposal - which in TT is very important. You have complete flexibility with AD Fizz.

The best part is no one expects the little Frog to be any where near this deadly Your opponents will even laugh at you. The fact that your opponents will underestimate you, even sneer at you, is in itself a powerful weapon. Time and Time again I am top lane, go toe to toe with WHOEVER sneers at this small but amazing amphibian and win. "Lucky Fizz" they cry. Then they try me on for size again, I win again. "LOL AD Fizz, you suck". they fling at me. Next time, they are cautious. So I wait. Then I explode... SHARK!, URCHIN STRIKE! TRIDENT! POKE, POKE, they are near death, They Run, Lets's get PLAYFUL! Slowed and Dying they FLASH or GHOST - but is does not matter - The DOT finishes the job... This scenario is not an exception to the rule it is THE RULE. AD Fizz FEARS NO ONE.

Still not convinced? AD Fizz can easily ramp up to unmatched DPS. Without a doubt AD Fizz is the AUTO ATTACK KING. With crushing up front damage, Incredible bonus damage and that nasty D.O.T AD Fizz is a pure killing machine. Whereas with AP Fizz, If you unleash your entire package at your enemy and you don't get the kill, you have nothing left to do but run and hide. Or maybe stay close in and get lucky before you die... IMO, AP Fizz is more Glass than Cannon. And if you are going to go ALL AP, Veigar, Ziggs and so many other do a better job of it.

AD Fizz is an IRON CANNON. Played right, I would argue that AD Fizz is the best melee champ there is...


A complete guide will follow, but here is a quick synopsis . . .

Ignite/Ghost

21/9 Masteries

Marks Armour Pen
Seals Armour
Glyphs Flat Mana
Quints Flat Health

Start with Seastone Trident (W), Max first
Playful Trickster (E) Max Last (take it second to avoid early ganks)
Urchin Strike (Q), Max Second
Chum the Waters as available - perhaps the most hilarious ULT in the game.

Boot to suit. (Merc treads usually the best, all have value).
Wriggles
Trinity Force
2 of these 4 Blood Thirster, Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, Blood Razor (Which two depends on your opponents and how the game is going).
Guardians or Frozen Heart

Start with Dorans Blade or Long Sword/HP. FInish Wriggles or Sheen first (depending on how "gankish the game is). Then rush to TF. and continue as best suited to wreak havoc.


A few tactics to use with AD Fizz.

- Don't be afraid to go head to head with anyone top lane. Be a Little cautious with Heimerdinger and AP Casters with lots of CC.

- Keep harassing with Q/W at every opportunity. Chase/Finish/Esape with E. Once you pop E, hold if if he stays for full effect, use the double hop to slow a runner if they try to flee. Shark to finish if needed.

- Kill at turrets with pure abandon. look for wounded opponents sheltering under the turret. Use Q to initiate, poke them. the E to lose turret Aggro. Hit Shark right on top of yourself/them, poke and bail. They will die and you will escape.

- Only Inititate with SHARK! on AP Kiters. Against AD toe to toe, just walk up to them and start the war. I don't care who they are, you will win if equally equipped. If they are a little fed. Initiate with Q, and make sure you have life steal item already bought Finish with shark on Toe to Toers.

- Against fed opponent you can still win with well timed skill use. Initiate with E. Trade a few blows. Q out of their range. Make them chase you a bit so your DOT widdles them down. Juke when possible. Hit them with SHARK as they chase. If they decide to bail, Q skate into them gain (you only need 7 seconds for it to be available), poke them repeatedly and keep chasing if they run. If they turn to face you gain, continue trading blows. POP YOUR E as you both are close to dying and just before your third Q. Your DOT is STILL LEECHING THEM INTO OBLIVION. Finish with with your third Q. Have your ignite at the ready at all times and use accordingly. (its best to use your ignite, right after the grevious wounds wear off your opponent from your W to keep their healing depressed. Note, make sure you have all the mana you need before taking on an opponent who is more fed than you.

- E plus Ghost can escape almost any bad situation. Conversely, it can kill almost any wounded opponent who tries to flee.

Supporters and detractors please comment.

dont blow your own trumpet too much will you


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Prolapse

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Anyone else check his match history? He's lost more than 50% of his AD fizz matches, all of them being normals, if you're this bad in normals god know how bad you are in ranked. no wonder you have a 33% win rate with fizz in ranked.

did you forget people could check your match history before you made this post?


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Kentucky Shuffle

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Senior Member

06-28-2012

I've been playing AD Fizz forever and I ALWAYS catch **** for it!

Definitely the better choice.