AD Fizz is better than AP Fizz for TT Soloers!

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BlackLancer

Senior Member

04-01-2012

I think AS would be more beneficial but I'm always a fan for tforce lol.


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Mellonova

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Senior Member

04-01-2012

Not going to lie you've inspired me to main AD Fizz, hopefully i'll be able to pull stunts like the ones in your video.


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Exqzr

Senior Member

04-01-2012

No Better time to Play Fizz than RIGHT NOW!!

Awesome new skin!!!

Enjoy!


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Th3 Herbalist

Senior Member

04-01-2012

AD Fizz probably works just fine, but unless you're building him tanky DPS like the rest of the decent ADs you might as well just make him AP. His W hurts MUCH more, his Q hits MUCH harder with a Lich Bane, and you're not just using his ult for CC purposes. AP Fizz regularly 3-shots other champs late-game - I can't see that happening with a tanky DPS build.

Bottom line though, I guess it's just a different play style. Kudos for doing well with it.


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SprinklerMonkey

Member

04-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryogen1x View Post
AD Fizz probably works just fine, but unless you're building him tanky DPS like the rest of the decent ADs you might as well just make him AP. His W hurts MUCH more, his Q hits MUCH harder with a Lich Bane, and you're not just using his ult for CC purposes. AP Fizz regularly 3-shots other champs late-game - I can't see that happening with a tanky DPS build.

Bottom line though, I guess it's just a different play style. Kudos for doing well with it.
This.


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Coola

Senior Member

04-01-2012

I respect the fact that you are trying to promote AD Fizz. I used to play him with the same early build but a tankier later game build. AD Fizz cannot beat a riven in lane, cannot beat an olaf, but he beats the others, not sure about fiora though, never had the match up. AD Fizz is good, but maybe when a few champs get nerfed, because his mid game is too weak if he doesn't win his lane. But if he does win then his mid and late game are insanely strong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryogen1x View Post
AD Fizz probably works just fine, but unless you're building him tanky DPS like the rest of the decent ADs you might as well just make him AP. His W hurts MUCH more, his Q hits MUCH harder with a Lich Bane, and you're not just using his ult for CC purposes. AP Fizz regularly 3-shots other champs late-game - I can't see that happening with a tanky DPS build.

Bottom line though, I guess it's just a different play style. Kudos for doing well with it.
AP fizz is really strong, but they are played differently. AD Fizz is not bursty, its more constant DPS. Using his W, Q with trinity, some crit in this guy's build, or uses on hit effect items like wits and bloodrazor.


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Exqzr

Senior Member

04-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryogen1x View Post
AD Fizz probably works just fine, but unless you're building him tanky DPS like the rest of the decent ADs you might as well just make him AP. His W hurts MUCH more, his Q hits MUCH harder with a Lich Bane, and you're not just using his ult for CC purposes. AP Fizz regularly 3-shots other champs late-game - I can't see that happening with a tanky DPS build.

Bottom line though, I guess it's just a different play style. Kudos for doing well with it.

I agree with this completely.

AP Fizz does better burst than AD/AS/on hit Fizz.

AD/AS/On hit Fizz has more flexibility.

It is important to understand that I believe flexibility is a greater priority when solo queuing than just pure DPS. I don't make this claim when playing ranked or with buddies. This is purely a SOLO queue build.

Also, I find that a pure DPS build requires a snowball. A 4/2/6 AP FIzz late game - unless it goes long - has big problems. For example. Assuming a cautious game with reasonable D on both sides. AP fizz can buy with 7600 in collected gold...

Sorc Shoes (required or what's the point)
Lich Bane
Rod Of ages.

FOR THE SAME MONEY, AD Fizz can buy

Ninja Tabi
Trinity Force
WRIGGLES!
Stinger

Consider the above in a team fight...

With the first build. IF you opponents have a good tank with high MR, you're screwed. You shark requires line of sight and unless you get in a ambush against teams who don't know how to ward, that tank is going to take your shark, slide and your hop.(you will need to stay in the pocket with your hop to do damage or what's the point?) with a shrug. If they have any CC, you are going to die before you get in your second poke. Now maybe you get lucky and your shark hits who you want, or maybe you MISS Completely, and then you are sadly, useless, till your cool down. Anyway, even if your shark hits their DPS, you still have to get into slide range. And you WILL STILL NEED YOUR HOP to finish him.

With the Second build, you can actually do the following... HOP OVER THE TANK, slide into their DPS. drop shark on top of him. Poke, Poke, Poke. DEAD. Then run. They will chase, you will get to a bush. WAIT. Slide into their Bruiser as they frantically try to take you out cause you are at 1/4 HP. Your Life steal is keeping you alive and your W does HUGE Damage and mates are now wailing into them from behind. You slide back into their bruiser. HOP ON THEM. Poke. Bruiser dies. You now have 1/8th your HP. Maybe tank kills you now or maybe your team kills him. either way you get 3 to 1 or 3 to 0 kills and the other team is going to SCREAM WTF?

Essentially, your HOP, SLIDE and SHARK can be used to evade, dodge, engage, trap, confuse etc. Your W is going to put on most of your hurt. With AP Fizz you must use all your skills FOR damage. This just won't work unless you got the exact right team mix going in. You pretty much need a TANK with CC to make AP fizz work in team fights. Like Nunu or Amumu AND a bruiser who can watch your back.

Consider Jungling...

Build one... Meh.. nuff said.

Build two... Clears the top in less than 1 minute including soloing the dragon.

Consider Pushing a lane and clearing minions...

AP Build Good for minion if you use E. BUT BAD IDEA. You need this at the ready to escape that GANK. Meh vs. Turret.

Build two. Excellent. Clear all minions in two to three hits each (not 5) and solo turret super fast.

Nexus Defense?

No contest. Get Tiamat if desperate.

Hard push for the win after an Ace?

No contest.

Ability to Spec according to your opponents composition?

No Contest - You don't HAVE TO GET ANY ITEM. You can choose, Is Blood Razor or Bloodthirster better? Hmmm. IF they have a Voli bear, get Blood Razor and Laugh away as you MOW HIM DOWN with AUTO ATTACKS. It's kinda funny. Rammus? Get Hextech and actually kill him before he kills you. Teemo/Singed? Get a FON and shrug off those Shrooms and or poison. Wukong/Garen? Switch your tabi into boots of swiftness and get PD. No problems here.

I could go on but once you get TF, Vs. Lich bane, you can custom the build as needed. With AP your big choice is going to be Abyssal Staff or Void staff? Not really that much customizing going on.

I guess in essence. This idea is one of overall game strategy vs. overall maximum DPS. AP will do the second, AD will do the first and gives your team a better chance at victory.


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Exqzr

Senior Member

04-01-2012

I agree with you but I have not yet had a problem against Riven. It requires caution at start. Let him push a bit. Biggest problem I have had is against Lee Sin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coola View Post
I respect the fact that you are trying to promote AD Fizz. I used to play him with the same early build but a tankier later game build. AD Fizz cannot beat a riven in lane, cannot beat an olaf, but he beats the others, not sure about fiora though, never had the match up. AD Fizz is good, but maybe when a few champs get nerfed, because his mid game is too weak if he doesn't win his lane. But if he does win then his mid and late game are insanely strong.



AP fizz is really strong, but they are played differently. AD Fizz is not bursty, its more constant DPS. Using his W, Q with trinity, some crit in this guy's build, or uses on hit effect items like wits and bloodrazor.


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Th3 Herbalist

Senior Member

04-01-2012

The only problem I'm having with your argument is that you're basing it on your opinion that AP Fizz is worse than AD Fizz. Just as you say AP Fizz can be countered with MR, AD Fizz can be countered by armor, and AS/on-hit Fizz can be countered by MR(or armor, depending on the build) as well. That can be countered with the right items, but it doesn't make either one worse than the other. I agree with you that AD Fizz can be very good, but I think it's wasting potential. If you want a good solo queue AD that you can carry with, there's plenty of other equally-viable choices (Wukong is essentially the same play style as Fizz, but functions as the same role you're using Fizz for anyway).


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Exqzr

Senior Member

04-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryogen1x View Post
The only problem I'm having with your argument is that you're basing it on your opinion that AP Fizz is worse than AD Fizz. Just as you say AP Fizz can be countered with MR, AD Fizz can be countered by armor, and AS/on-hit Fizz can be countered by MR(or armor, depending on the build) as well. That can be countered with the right items, but it doesn't make either one worse than the other. I agree with you that AD Fizz can be very good, but I think it's wasting potential. If you want a good solo queue AD that you can carry with, there's plenty of other equally-viable choices (Wukong is essentially the same play style as Fizz, but functions as the same role you're using Fizz for anyway).
I agree in part.

Ad Fizz is actually dual damage. So 30 to 40% of it will MD.

So, if your opponent does build Frozen Heart and or Randuins, you custom on the fly and go More Magic damage with Wits end and Malady or pop in a Rylais for some additional ap. AD Fizz can not be counter built unless said tank GOES ALL D and get an FON, RANDUINS, THORN, FROZEN, SUNFIRE and WARMOGS. Well, first its almost impossible for a tank to get enough farm to get all these and second if he does, its probably good game no matter what you do ad or ap wise.

I feel ad is better than ap for solo queue only as per the thread title, I feel it wins more games. It's about 15% more effective after testing about 100 game of each. So about a 75% win ratio to a 60% win ratio for me and I feel I am equally as good at playing both.

Just my personal experience as probably the most "experienced" (note, does not mean "skilled") fizz player on the TT Map.


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