AD Fizz is better than AP Fizz for TT Soloers!

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Exqzr

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Update November 6th

New Video with a Tanky? Fizz http://youtu.be/V7l2HrA002s



Update on New SiTT

Everything applies but even more so. Playing Fizz as AP on this new map is ... painful.

AD Fizz can do very well. Bruisers rule!

A new video featuring Fizz on Shadow Isles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5EVv...ature=youtu.be


Update Oct 20 2012.


First, let me say, I appreciate all the comments made on this post for and against. I've learned a lot since writing this and while much of what I say below still holds true for me, I apologise if it seemed preachy or rather suggesting that my knowledge was superior. Let me say that AP Fizz dishes out more damage when it's all said and done. However, AD Fizz or AS/On Hit Fizz gives you more flexibility in game and several build options you can decide on the fly. Both Full AP Fizz and alternative builds are viable in TT.

I do feel that the Bruiser version of Fizz with either AD, AS and or MAX CDR and said flexibility will win you more games in TT than a full AP Fizz will. I have tried all the builds, both of my own design and those of others as posted on various sites. If you play SR and this thread is interesting to you, Try a Max CDR build, which I am currently testing.

Really what this thread has become is about alternative Fizz builds vs. A full AP build and the viability of various options. It's an open discussion for Fizz players and those interested in the process of decomposing a champ to find optimal builds and play styles.

Anyway, for fun, I made a new video. Again, it's for fun. Please don't say I would have lost said battle if A. or B. or C. did or did not happen. When I play Fizz Top lane, I rarely lose the lane. I compiled various clips showing why. I tried where possible to show even gold/Level encounters, so there are a lot of early on examples. 90% of these clips are from the last 6 weeks of play. A few are dusted off from my old archives. As of this writing, there are maybe 2 Melee champs (Sion/Olaf) with a relatively even gold/level that I would hesitate to engage (Sion due to his ult and life steal Olaf because of his true damage.) Many of the clips are from proving grounds. These truly are just for entertainment as the proving grounds is not a real duel with all those heath pools popping up but it does show that Fizz can get up close and personal against a variety of champs.

I do not claim to be a great or even good Fizz player. I think it is fair to say that I am a "confident" Fizz player and probably the most experienced (for what it is worth) Fizz player on TT. Why Fizz you wonder? Simply put he is by far the most fun champ to play. He is also very challenging and I learn something new every game. There is nothing simple about him - you have to take risks, you must have great mechanics, solid map awareness and there is no "just mash your buttons and hope for the best" kind of play style.

If you are interested, here is the link for the you tube video. Gl and have fun in your games.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyir3...ature=youtu.be

The orignal post follows....

There is no doubt about it. AD Fizz is one of the best kept secrets in LoL.

This after testing every possible combination of AD/AP and Hybrid Fizz builds. (Please note, this has only been tested for TT soloing, not premades or ranked). Although, I think a case can be made for AD Fizz in these arenas as well. I am going to try this in SR ranked and hope I don't get banned by ignorant meta players. Wish me luck.

Anyway, I found while testing this idea, I took A LOT of heat. "NOOB!" was the most frequently used term, "IDIOT!" was fairly common as well. I even had my own team mates say... Fizz is my main, and AP is the only way to play him. you are going to cost us this game, you dumb***" I say, "Whatever, We'll see".

O.k. Admittedly, I had a bunch of bad (horrible) games at the early going until I figured out the optimum build and the uniquely different play style that AD Fizz requires over AP Fizz. I would say I lost 16 out of my first 20 games and almost gave up myself so, perhaps some of these angry comments were justified...

Furthermore, I imagine that anyone who has tried AD Fizz has experienced the same struggles I did early on and likely gave up the quest and defaulted to the easier commonly accepted AP Fizz builds. And thus,. I have yet to read a guide that even tries to make AD Fizz work. AD Fizz and his power has til now never come to light!

BUT! after the first 20 games, I started to figured out a very efficient right build order and I also started to understand that I could not play AD Fizz the same way I was used to playing AP Fizz. With this new fresh approach, it was like the clouds opened up and I could start to see things very clearly.

Simply put AD Fizz is a MONSTER IN HIDING! - Unbelievably and surprisingly strong. I am not over stating this!. AD Fizz can TOP LANE Against anyone and DOMINATE. AD Fizz goes 1 V 1s vs OLAF, YI, Tryn, Riven, Fiora, XIN!!! et. al and WINS! (assuming equal gold), every time!

The reason why AD Fizz is a powerhouse killer is because of his W and they way it works under the surface]. WOW! I can not say enough about this skill.

Seastone Trident is perhaps the most underrated skill in the game. The auto "Grevious Wounds" part coupled with ACCELERATING DAMAGE, and D.O.T. as icing on the cake.

Seastone Trident completely messes up your opponent's timing and sustainability - God help them.

Coupled with a well timed Playful Trickster and the also very underrated Urchin Strike will make your opponent's head spin. Your Ult? SHARK! Well let me just say as a finisher on a runner, I laugh every time I hear the "CHOMP!" - you have slain an opponent..

AD Fizz can out damage, out sustain and gank better than ANY other Melee champ - IMHO -. I know that's a very bravado claim to make, but I have slowly but surely been proving it my last 30 games or so.

The only down side of this build and AD Fizz, is you have to be very very good with your timing. . You need to get into FIZZ ZEN MODE. What I mean by that is you need to develop an almost intuitive sense of timing on when to use your skill set - too early or too late and you will lose important battles that you should have otherwise won. You have to understand and get very familiar with your your hidden talents. Fizz does so much behind the scenes, that opponents just cant react effectively. They won't know how to counter you, they won't know how to kill you and they won't know how to get away from you. No joke folks.

For example, you can actually do the following against a well fed ASHE carry....

Turn on Ghost, Run towards her, DODGE her ult with E as you land on her with with it. NICE!!! Steroid up with W, Poke her. She runs and turns to slow you. Close the GAP a second time with a Q skate, and she is already almost dead. She runs again but this time to scared to try to slow you. Poke, Poke. Poke, Dead. Every time! IF necessary fling your shark at her just to be sure. You can even do this while she is protected by her turret!

In fact, you can take out almost any champ at their own turret at 50% health with Q, W, poke, E, poke, shark, poke, poke, bail and live! The shark and DOT will finish the job. Your E will lose the turret aggro. It's a beautiful thing to watch and one of the most satisfying turret dive combos you will ever pull off.

I actually had one opponent say that they thought they were watching the Matrix. after seeing me perform the above two actions. They were both mesmerized and demoralized at the same time

O.k. so those of you familiar with AP Fizz will say, "but AP fizz can do all those things as well." TRUE, he can, but it's not really the same. AP Fizz does not have the initial delivery plus follow up and or finishing potential of the continuous, relentless, accelerating hurt that AD Fizz has! Instead of using your skills as the majority of your damage, you use your skills to initiate, trap, and finish. The Toe to Toe damage output does the rest.

By making AD your primary damage source, your skill package can now be used with significantly more flexibility. You can use your skills as you need them and at the right times. In contrast, AP Fizz REQUIRES you to dish out your entire payload in one giant burst and hope it works! If you play smart, avoid all ganks, hit with your R everytime Etc. Etc. AP Fizz looks like a real good bet. But if not, AP Fizz is meh.

AD Fizz has so much more to offer over AP Fizz and can contribute even if you are having a sub par game. This Includes, jungling, minion chewing, taking down turrets, defending turrets and even damage soaking.

Any utility type role is at your disposal - which in TT is very important. You have complete flexibility with AD Fizz.

The best part is no one expects the little Salamander to be any where near this deadly Your opponents will even laugh at you. The fact that your opponents will underestimate you, even sneer at you, is in itself a powerful weapon. Time and Time again I am top lane, go toe to toe with WHOEVER sneers at this small but amazing amphibian and win. "Lucky Fizz" they cry. Then they try me on for size again, I win again. "LOL AD Fizz, you suck". they fling at me. Next time, they are cautious. So I wait. Then I explode... SHARK!, URCHIN STRIKE! TRIDENT! POKE, POKE, they are near death, They Run, Lets's get PLAYFUL! Slowed and Dying they FLASH or GHOST - but is does not matter - The DOT finishes the job... This scenario is not an exception to the rule it is THE RULE. AD Fizz FEARS NO ONE.

Still not convinced? AD Fizz can easily ramp up to unmatched DPS. Without a doubt AD Fizz is the AUTO ATTACK KING. With crushing up front damage, Incredible bonus damage and that nasty D.O.T AD Fizz is a pure killing machine. Whereas with AP Fizz, If you unleash your entire package at your enemy and you don't get the kill, you have nothing left to do but run and hide. Or maybe stay close in and get lucky before you die... IMO, AP Fizz is more Glass than Cannon. And if you are going to go ALL AP, Veigar, Ziggs and so many other do a better job of it.

AD Fizz is an IRON CANNON. Played right, I would argue that AD Fizz is the best melee champ there is...


********************************************
Updated Quick guide October 21, 2012



Ignite/Ghost or Exhaust/Heal

21/9 Masteries

Marks Armour Pen/AD/As
Seals Flat Armour (this is the only must IMO)
Glyphs Flat Mana/Flat MR/MR per Level
Quints Flat Health or Arpen/Ad/AS

Start with Seastone Trident (W), Max first
Playful Trickster (E) Max Last (take it second to avoid early ganks) Can also max this second as per your play style.
Urchin Strike (Q), Max Second
Chum the Waters as available - perhaps the most hilarious ULT in the game.

Boot to suit. (Merc treads usually the best, all have value).
Wriggles (If game goes really long sell this for a Blood Thirster). Also Executioner's Calling is a great option.
Trinity Force (you do not have to rush Tri Force, leaving Sheen and going for your next addition for quick "counter build is o.k.).
2 of these 9 Nashor's Tooth (best if coupled with CDR boots). Blood Thirster, Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, Blood Razor, WITS END, Spark, Malady, Frozen Mallet. (Which two depends on your opponents and how the game is going). Wits End is usually the best all around addition and finish with Blood Razor. Infinity Edge works very well with Executinoers calling if you want to go the Crit Route (which can be very nasty). Frozen Mallet is very situational and goes well with Warmogs for Ultra Bruiser role and where you are up against a heavy poke team.
Guardians/Frozen Heart/Warmogs/FON. GA is usually the best. Note that FON also adds move speed

Can also take two armour and 1 additional weapon after core. Do this if you need to be the main damage soaker for your team. But it's not ideal on Fizz.

Starting item(s). Dorans Blade or Long Sword/HP. Boots and 3 HP. Cloth and 4 HP 1 MP.


Finish Wriggles or Sheen after boots 1. (This is depending on how "gankish the game is). Then usually rush to TF. or counter build to adapt to game situation.


A few tactics to use with AD Fizz.

- Don't be afraid to go head to head with anyone top lane. Be a Little cautious with Heimerdinger and AP Casters with lots of CC.

- Keep harassing with Q/W at every opportunity. Chase/Finish/Esape with E. Once you pop E, hold if if he stays for full effect, use the double hop to catch up to a runner if they try to flee. Shark to finish if needed.

- Kill at turrets with pure abandon. look for wounded opponents sheltering under the turret. Use Q to initiate, poke them. the E to lose turret Aggro. Hit Shark right on top of yourself/them, poke and bail. They will die and you will escape.

- Only Initiate with SHARK! on AP Kiters or runners. Against AD toe to toe, just walk up to them and start the war. I don't care who they are, you will win if equally equipped. If they are a little fed. Initiate with Q, and make sure you have life steal item already bought Finish with shark on Toe to Toers.

- Against fed opponent you can still win with well timed skill use. Initiate with E. Trade a few blows. Q out of their range. Make them chase you a bit so your DOT widdles them down. Juke when possible. Hit them with SHARK as they chase. If they decide to bail, Q skate into them gain (you only need 7 seconds for it to be available), poke them repeatedly and keep chasing if they run. If they turn to face you again, continue trading blows. POP YOUR E as you both are close to dying and just before your third Q. Your DOT is STILL LEECHING THEM INTO OBLIVION. Finish with with your third Q. Have your ignite at the ready at all times and use accordingly. (its best to use your ignite, right after the grevious wounds wear off your opponent from your W to keep their healing depressed. Note, make sure you have all the mana you need before taking on an opponent who is more fed than you.

- E plus Ghost can escape almost any bad situation. Conversely, it can kill almost any wounded opponent who tries to flee.

Supporters and detractors please comment.


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Sam

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Would AD Fizz win Pantheon top? :O


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Exqzr

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Såm View Post
Would AD Fizz win Pantheon top? :O
Hey Sam,

I just realized that I did not make any mention of Fizzes passive. This is a whole chapter by iteself. his passive with just cloth armour and he can ride out the stun plus heart seeker that panth will unleash. Fizzes counter attack will amputate Pantheons legs. Proper Timing on the use of E - right when Panth Flings his spear will win the fight. Mistimed, it's 50/50 you win or lose. That said, you can use E to escape if things are going badly. Panth has no escape.


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Lotus Guardian

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Thank you.... and **** you mother****ers in normals who insult me for playing as AD fizz... and own the game as him then get mad anyways because I am AD fizz

...also his Q works with lifesteal (waymoreso than spellvamp)


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HoboCrow

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Sam vs Exqzr 1 on 1!


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Exqzr

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicShroom View Post
Thank you.... and **** you mother****ers in normals who insult me for playing as AD fizz... and own the game as him then get mad anyways because I am AD fizz

...also his Q works with lifesteal (waymoreso than spellvamp)
It's also true that Q works just as well with TF as it does with Lichbane. I think i have done near 1000 damage with it on a heimer once, but 700+ is common. This is one of the hidden talents I am referring to and has a lot to do with his "on hit effects" working with the skills.


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kingnedved

Senior Member

03-05-2012

great effort , thanks man , i have tried ap fizz & didn't work well for me , maybe i'll give as fizz a try


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EnemyController

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Senior Member

03-05-2012

Gotta give this a shot, sounds fun


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Exqzr

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnemyController View Post
Gotta give this a shot, sounds fun
Would love to hear about your results


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SeymourNatus

Junior Member

03-29-2012

I've been playing AD Fizz for a week or two now, and i have to say i completely agree with everything you have said. I've only had one problem, and that's when i was solo top against a Garen, but even then i made a comeback.


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