Morello - This is a serious issue and you are responsible

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NVDax

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wriggle View Post
No. The 'stealth rework' will split Stealth into two types: Permanent Stealth and Unseen/Hidden/Invisible (? I forget the term). Twitch and Evelynn are in the former and will be affected by the sight gem, everyone else is in the latter.
Isn't permanent stealth, with enemies seeing you as soon as you get close it defeats the purpose. How are you going to "assainate"


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Epicn00b

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Does it? Based on what? The game is more balanced right now than it ever has been, and new champions dramatically increase player retention and engagement - that's the REAL metrics that judge success. IE; do people like our game.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't do those things too, but it does mean we shouldn't "scorched earth" the other things players get excited about. It's easy to think anecdotal evidence (especially when reinforced by self-selected peer groups) is representative of players as a group, but it rarely is - this is true of mine, yours or anyone's.
My "Morello's bullsht" senses are tingling. This is how I read this:

Quote:
We are NOT going to release any new content besides champions. Maps don't make money. CHAMPS MAKE MONEY. We will never, ever release a new map and why? Look at the Crystal Scar. A lot of people hate it.


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Wriggle

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Adjudicator

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaspy View Post
You say handful, but it is a solid 10% of the champions who fall on the bottom.
10% of champions is nine out of ninety-something. That's pretty much "a handful".


Quote:
Originally Posted by NVDax View Post
Isn't permanent stealth, with enemies seeing you as soon as you get close it defeats the purpose. How are you going to "assainate"
If you're close enough to be detected, you're going to have to go in and attack. They're still not going to see you until, say, 300 range, shorter than normal sight range, but you won't be able to pull off the "i'm going to sit on/follow them for 20 seconds until there's a perfect opportunity" stuff that you can now.


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Dirty Foot

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wriggle View Post
No. The 'stealth rework' will split Stealth into two types: Permanent Stealth and Unseen/Hidden/Invisible (? I forget the term). Twitch and Evelynn are in the former and will be affected by the sight gem, everyone else is in the latter.
Which will lead to another indirect nerf to Teemo's passive and his shrooms.


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Dirty Foot

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaspy View Post
Well it isn't like you are spouting exact statistics backed by anything at the moment either.
Don't call us onto the carpet for something you yourself are not doing.

You say handful, but it is a solid 10% of the champions who fall on the bottom.
Interestingly enough, he's really the only person in this dialogue that has that information.

It's kind of like a doctor asking a patient for the diagnosis.


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Wriggle

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Adjudicator

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Foot View Post
Which will lead to another indirect nerf to Teemo's passive and his shrooms.
Nope, Teemo still falls into the latter.. despite being "Permanent". Ditto Shaco's jacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Foot View Post
Interestingly enough, he's really the only person in this dialogue that has that information.

It's kind of like a doctor asking a patient medical questions.
Eh? People were tracking the Hanover champion usage, check here ("All"). It seems 24 champions weren't picked, not "10%", and 21 were neither picked nor banned. Hell, Annie, the game's iconic mage, wasn't picked once.


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Drago6817

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
That's a false expectation - "perfect balance" isn't even a goal, nor something you want us to do, but instead, improving balance improves variety, fairness and strategic options. Example:

I can make a perfectly balanced game right now. It's called "take a penny." There are 10 pennies. Both players take turns taking a penny. When all the pennies are gone, the player with the most pennies wins.

I think a lot of the issue (not talking Eve, but generally) is that people think perfect balance is a goal, realistic or even desirable, when in fact it's not. That would be a very boring game.
Thank god you aren't going for perfect balance. perfect balance means we all use the same character with the same skills and receive the same items.


On that note (and I'm sure the stealth remake will help this) could you please mix in a little more variety into new champions? it seems like all of the new champions just use renamed or SLIGHTLY changed abilities from current champions. Im sure you guys can look to your roots (hint hint) and find a HUGE untapped variety of fresh ideas for champion abilities that would really help differentiate champions.

Right now I sort of react to a new champion like "oh, so he has singed's flip, but slightly different, and Jaxes passive mixed with Nidalees bite, a generic aoe that stops minion damage and a semi unique ionic spark for an ult (for lolibear for example)

What I want to think when I see a new champion is (omfg! he can do THAT? I've never seen that before! that's awesome!) I know this makes learning the game harder for newbies because they have to learn how to react to new abilities instead of the same ones slightly changed, but I think the pay off is worth it in retention for vets who want new kit instead of rehashed kit.

I really miss some if the real omgwtfbbq abilities from LOL's great grandparents, like infesting a creep wave to stealthly gank a lane, or flank, or escape. REAL summoning champions ( i know LOL doesn't want you to have to control more than one character but it can be worked aroung like malz and shaco,..)Yorick just doesn't cut it, he is basically a nuker with a debuff portion that is controlled by your attack damage and priority, not a summoner. Things like that need to be brought into LOL, fresh abilities to the game instead of the same old shields, steroids, nukes etc.


Thank you guys so much to responding to the community on the stealth issue.


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Captain Ironhelm

Senior Member

03-15-2012

I love this, Morello talking directly to the community about a problem. What other game can you see this happening? Awesome.


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Darkwahn

Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
See why I wasn't saying anything?
I know you dont live on the forums (You shouldnt.) But NEVER EVER pay ANY attention to something Oracle Elixir says. I know that the community does respond like that sometimes, but taking it from him is flatly unfair. If we had a forum tribunal they wouldve come to his house and hung him from the neck until death. :P


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Okame SRK

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I make the call on this stuff in Live and Champion design, and I simply ****ed this up.?
It's stuff like this that makes me love Riot. No other game company would come forward and tell their playerbase they made a mistake. They'd hem and haw and say they were "strongly considering all aspects" of a remake like this. They'd insist that the stealth remake would still be "on schedule" and we'd all have our hopes and dreams satisfied. Also, everyone would get a pony.

Kudos to Morello for having the integrity and honesty to be frank with us. I love the way you guys interact with the community.