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Morello - This is a serious issue and you are responsible

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Morello

Lead Designer

03-15-2012

Quote:
Swenka:
@Morello: Xypherous had mentioned that since it has taken far too long to complete, that almost no matter what, most will be disappointed. I can guess that you feel the same, or at least similar?

Are there any plans, if you can comment, for a new stealth-based champ to be released with or within the near future (0-6 months) of the rework's arrival?

--
Unrelated: I want top hats and monocles. For all. :3


Frankly, the new stealth is weaker, but less binary. The reason is basically that the current stealth hold the rest of the kits back and forces them to be weak - this is a necessary cost to us being able to make these character good, fun, and balanced at more elo levels.


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kucing

Senior Member

03-15-2012

For game like this, balance is pretty much impossible. Because I dont think someone can design all champions have same power, same playing style and same difficulty.

Undervalued champions, however, add challenging factor for this game. If you can play and use those undervalued champions well, you can prove your skill. Unfortunately, this doesnt apply with Eve. Picking her is considered as Troll Pick no matter what


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Kururuko

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
FearlessBunny:
This is an issue regarding champion balance that actually has grave consequences both in and outside the game.

Eve

To take my latest game as an example, I felt like playing Eve, I have played quite a bit of Eve during my time in LoL. Before she was considered OP, when she was OP and until you made her really bad by removing her stun.

The result? Within 3 minutes of the game, my top, mid and jungle were AFK, I had to endure flaming for close to 20 minutes and I got reports from 3 in my team, and atleast 2 on the other teams.

Let me say that again, I picked a champion, I played it seriously (roaming), 3 people went AFK, flamed me and then I got atleast 5 reports for picking a champion I wanted to play. And this was at 1650-1800 elo.

I have over 2500 ranked games played. I have one ban during this time, and I'm strongly suspecting that ban was from playing Eve, and getting 8-9 reports for it even though I had better stats than 2 on my team and I did nothing against the rules.

Either you balance Eve or you disable her. People are getting harassed, trashed and banned for playing a champion which is UNACCEPTABLE


Eve is not that bad if you are good. Catching people when they are running. Maybe change her slow to the new CC - Pacified. Silence+no AA+a little slow.


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SwiggitieSwootie

Senior Member

03-15-2012

@Morello: This is off-topic but do you need a stress ball for some of the questions you answer daily?


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CrippledPimp

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Morello:
Yes, which is why we use tons of analysis techniques and data to inform decisions as well Anecdotal experience is the least valuable tool at our disposal.


Hi Morello,

What kind of data do you guys use? I'm just a data monkey and I'm curious.

Do you guys do focus groups? Do you guys compare the frequency of certain champion selections? Do you guys compare win/loss of certain champions?

How do you know when something is representative of the player base when the ultimate gauge of unhappiness is not playing the game (....which you can't gauge since they aren't playing the game -- unless you gauge population trends and notice a slump among a certain area)

Is it more qualitative or quantitative?


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M0MENTUM

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Hey Morello, I had another question but not so much related to stealth, is there any plans to improve pushing as an optional team plan? Currently teams don't push unless they kill a lane, so pushing isn't the strategy, straight fighting is the strategy. It just seems like being a 'pusher' is a meaningless title because you don't want to push your lane, you want to kill your lane so you can push, so really being a killer seems better for actually pushing a lane than being a pusher. I just ask because I love Heimerdinger and he makes a great poke champion, but you can't utilize his pushing ability because its just an all out weaker strategy versus killing the lane and then doing what you want with the lane.


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kucing

Senior Member

03-15-2012

For game like this, balance is pretty much impossible. Because I dont think someone can design all champions have same power, same playing style and same difficulty.

Undervalued champions, however, add challenging factor for this game. If you can play and use those undervalued champions well, you can prove your skill. Unfortunately, this doesnt apply with Eve. Picking her is considered as Troll Pick no matter what


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DStrangelove

Senior Member

03-15-2012

So, i've read all the ''your balance is crappy riot'' frankly i dont really agree because you guys trying your best and its going pretty decent.

But why did you not disable Evelyn? You let people waste IP on a champ thats horrifyingly bad. Didnt you say something about keeping playing retention rates up? And i thought low cost IP champs were supposed to help beginners. think again i suppose.


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Fox P McCloud

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Morello:
Yes, which is why we use tons of analysis techniques and data to inform decisions as well Anecdotal experience is the least valuable tool at our disposal.


I admit I was joking a bit, but now you've piqued my curiosity--how often does this become a problem in your design experience? I realize you'd strive to minimize it as much as possible...but....we as humans (well, and some foxes) tend to cling to ideas we initially like.


Quote:
Morello:
also remember this tournament had alternate meta strategies involved, showing even greater diversity


I mean no offense by this Morello...but this is a bit of a joke. =/ The only real thing that was attempting to break the meta (kill lane bot with Blitz-star) got absolutely crushed...quite horrendously, at that =/

Quote:
Morello:
Not until it's locked so I can give real, concrete things. I don't want more "maybe this, soon" from us.


Let me ask you this...can we at least expect it within the next 6 months, or are you not willing to commit even to this? If not, I understand--things happen.


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Prettyfox

Recruiter

03-15-2012

Personally, I have a question based directly to Morello. As of right now, Eve seems to be based specifically off the ability to go AP with her, yet her ult gives her bonuses that seem to strictly focus on being able to AD well. She does AD quite well, in my honest opinion, and a simple fix to her would be to alter her AP ratios to AD ratios. Already she does good damage and her stealth and slow are very useful mechanics if you can figure out the best way to change the tide of battle, allowing you to use both to their maximum advantage. Her hate spike with an AD ratio would allow it to be more useful to the standard AD eve than to just allow her to proc her trinity force, and adding a small bonus AD ratio to Ravage would significantly increase it's damage.

Already her E reduces ARmor and Magic Resist, mix that with a good AD ratio on her abilities and even as she is now she would be a balanced champion.