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Morello - This is a serious issue and you are responsible

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DrewRoid

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Morello:
Does it? Based on what? The game is more balanced right now than it ever has been, and new champions dramatically increase player retention and engagement - that's the REAL metrics that judge success. IE; do people like our game.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't do those things too, but it does mean we shouldn't "scorched earth" the other things players get excited about. It's easy to think anecdotal evidence (especially when reinforced by self-selected peer groups) is representative of players as a group, but it rarely is - this is true of mine, yours or anyone's.


Keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing the completed project.

P.s. Haters gona hate.


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Marshmallomancer

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Morello:
While there's no comment other than "it's done!" I can give that will make people feel good about this, let's be frank for a moment;

* Yes, the stealth rework was a majorly mismanaged project that took far too long. We own up to that.

* Eve is purposefully nerfed to being as poor as she is - her damage to how badly she was kicking new players out of the game in frustrating was beyond unacceptable. Not optimal in any means, but the right decision overall. Our plan was to not take forever, which was the failing point. This is the only thing we've ever nerfed this hard on purpose.

* Talking about progress is meaningless until I have real, concrete information for you, which I don't at this time.

* We won't disable her because some people have fun with her, despite peer pressure. You're speaking to a player behavior problem that needs to be fixed (there will always be a weakest champion - whether real (this case) or perceived.

* We understand that you're frustrated and why you are, and luckily, we've stopped mismanaging and incorrectly prioritizing this set of work - unfortunately, it's a lot of work.

That's all I can add that's useful, currently.


I guess it's pointless to even suggest at this point, but why don't you just rework her kit completely until the stealth rework is done? Like, just start from scratch. It seems like that would be more easily done than the stealth rework at this point considering how long it's taken this far with still NO concrete information.

Edit: To be fair, I believe what they did to Eve was for the best, but it does seem unfair that they pretty much removed a champion from the game without removing her from the game. I do agree that this is a behavioral problem, but some of it is on Riot too.


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Quacker

Recruiter

03-15-2012

Quote:
Morello:
This is the only thing we've ever nerfed this hard on purpose.


Why did you break xin zhao's legs and never healed them then.....



on topic: What is your earliest projection date for this remake? What idea was the most probable, but shut down for some reason? What made you decide to shut down that idea.


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Marshmallomancer

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
SkidDX:
Why did you break xin zhao's legs and never healed them then.....


Maybe I'm naive, but I think they did that by accident (or at least, they didn't nerf him into unviability on purpose), though why they refuse to fix him is beyond me.


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Caladar

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Morello:
Does it? Based on what? The game is more balanced right now than it ever has been, and new champions dramatically increase player retention and engagement - that's the REAL metrics that judge success. IE; do people like our game.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't do those things too, but it does mean we shouldn't "scorched earth" the other things players get excited about. It's easy to think anecdotal evidence (especially when reinforced by self-selected peer groups) is representative of players as a group, but it rarely is - this is true of mine, yours or anyone's.


Eve and the stealth system is only one example of negligence and mismanagement.

Also can we expect anything similar to magma chamber in the distant future?
Highly anticipated and replaced for a lackluster and fast paced style starting with D. Anyone that quickly wants to "try" a new champion just starts a dominion game and does his thing to see how they feel and then never look back.
I'd have loved to see what Magma Chamber would have become since a lot of people were excited for it, but when you announced Dominion in place of it a lot of scepticism was thrown and the influx of "magma chamber?" posts on the forums for HUGE.

Is there going to be a overhaul to Twisted Treelines to refresh it to current standards in terms of jungle etc.? Because as of right now there's quite a big issue in balance when you play this mode because of how the map is laid out and the way the jungle works.

I know this is very offtopic to what the OP has mentioned in this, but this also is pretty close to some "broken promises" that weren't met or never heard from again. We could also throw in Project Shiny while we're at it.


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Hak3n

Senior Member

03-15-2012

OP can replace "Eve" with "Xin" and it would make perfect sense too, but is k we get more teemo skins!


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Gamble7

Senior Member

03-15-2012

If we had like an AD item that granted vision upon hit, it would be a really strong stealth counter, and you could buff twitch/eve without worrying too much about the stealth being overpowered.
The community is (generally) not happy with the idea of countering stealth with pinks and oracles.. we need a stealth counter that isnt so situational


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kucing

Senior Member

03-15-2012

To be honest, I dont like invisible mechanism. They can be very strong if your opponent doesnt buy any vision ward or oracle elixir or completely useless if your opponent uses vision wards or oracles.

I have once played Eve long time ago at lvl 13 or so. I can get couple of kills ganking top and bot lane while invisible. But when opponent Lux bought an oracle, meh I felt like I am completely useless.
Useless in teamfight
Useless in anything

It is better to completely remove stealth mechanism and give movement boost or short blink to current stealth champions.

At current meta, Jungler often buy Oracle and support buys Vision ward. This mean stealth champions= useless champions


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AdventHawk7

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Gamble7:
If we had like an AD item that granted vision upon hit, it would be a really strong stealth counter, and you could buff twitch/eve without worrying too much about the stealth being overpowered.
The community is (generally) not happy with the idea of countering stealth with pinks and oracles.. we need a stealth counter that isnt so situational


It's gonna be situational regardless if they implement the stealth vision items from Dominion to Summoner Rift, stealth is stealth, it will always be situational.

On Tryndamere if there was Evelynn on the enemy team you' be rushing that Dominion item that granted vision of stealth champions over I.E. and P.D.


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Morello

Lead Designer

03-15-2012

Quote:
Fox P McCloud:
Does this go for the Riot design team, too? =p


Yes, which is why we use tons of analysis techniques and data to inform decisions as well Anecdotal experience is the least valuable tool at our disposal.