Fiora builds - Anything different?

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Reiver

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Senior Member

03-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
i was referring to the recommended items for dominion specifically.
in any case, her dominion items were set by my recommendation, so i was curious to know if people were having success picking from that set.

basically, i wanted to know how close to the mark i was.
Personally you completely missed the mark on bilgewater cutlass, I just can't stand the item unless I'm specifically building into gunblade which would be a waste on fiora, I just feel like it doesn't do enough on it's own (especially given it's cost) as a general item, regardless of champ

Merc treads are just really iffy on her in general, it's the same reason merc treads fell out of popularity on ranged AD -> If you're getting CCed, you're dead anyways. I'd rather get lucidity or zerkers because your steroids aren't always up, so it's nice to either have more power while they're down or have them up more often.


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Stutta Step

Member

03-01-2012

I have only played a few games but a little attack speed doesn't hurt. imo wits end and kitae's bloodrazor go nicely with prospector+sanguine with boots of lucidity "CDR via mastery or items is HUGE on her" in dom i like to start boots+ prospector's, lucidity boots,sanguine blade. then depending take wits end or kitae's bloodrazor, then add w/e you feel is situational if it isnt over by then.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

03-01-2012

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Originally Posted by v4v3nd3774 View Post
Yes, it does actually. Base AS is what all % AS scales off of, even the scaling %AS you get every level(as this is exactly the same stat as %AS on dagger and recurve bow). http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_speed
Yes, the base is what the percentage is applied to, but it is still the same percent increase. If you have 1 attack per second and 10 AD, then get 50% increased attack speed, you go from 10dps to 15dps, a 50% increase, of course. If you have 2 attacks per second and 10 AD, then get 50% increased attack speed, now you go from 20dps to 30dps, also a 50% increase. Base attack speed does not make you scale better with increased attack speed, it makes you scale better with AD and on-hit procs. In fact, having a higher base attack speed means you'll cap sooner, so the slower your base, the more benefit you can get from items.


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

03-01-2012

A high base AS does not make AS items more valuable.

It does mean that each AS item gives you more attacks than a champion with a low base AS, but that's irrelevant. The important factor is the relative DPS increase, and the relative increase is the same for a 0.5 AS champ as it is for a 1.0 AS champ.

Your conclusions are reasonable enough v4v3nd3774 (it's not like AS is useless on her), but that statement is very wrong.


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v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

03-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cauldrath View Post
Yes, the base is what the percentage is applied to, but it is still the same percent increase. If you have 1 attack per second and 10 AD, then get 50% increased attack speed, you go from 10dps to 15dps, a 50% increase, of course. If you have 2 attacks per second and 10 AD, then get 50% increased attack speed, now you go from 20dps to 30dps, also a 50% increase. Base attack speed does not make you scale better with increased attack speed, it makes you scale better with AD and on-hit procs. In fact, having a higher base attack speed means you'll cap sooner, so the slower your base, the more benefit you can get from items.
It multiplies off your base attack speed, always, not off your current attack speed. So if you're currently at 1 attack a second 50%AS won't make it 1.5 attacks a second, because you likely already have some %AS effecting your swing to currently be 1 attack a second. It takes significantly more %AS for a champion with low base AS to reach the AS cap of 2.5 attacks a second. It also takes champions with a great base AS much less %AS to reach that cap. Maybe this chart will better help you understand. Sort by %AS needed to cap.


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

03-01-2012

As an addendum, it's actually the % increase per level that changes the value of AS on items.

Ironically, high % increase per level = lower value for AS. Low % increase per level = higher value for AS. Not by a huge amount, but the disparity exists.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

03-01-2012

The examples I gave were nice round numbers to make it obvious what the effect is. Yes, I know that no one has a base attack speed of 2 attacks per second, it was to make the point more obvious.


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v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

03-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
It does mean that each AS item gives you more attacks than a champion with a low base AS, but that's irrelevant.
That's the point, it's a multiplier on a constant. If your constant is low you get less of a return out of the multipler. It may be the same % difference, but that's like taking Endurance Quints on Anivia(lowest base health in the game) as opposed to Shen, suggesting they're just as good because they provide the same %. No, %AS is bad on some champions because they have horrendous base values making you have to build a ridiculous amount to get any kind of substantial return out of it.


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v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

03-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
As an addendum, it's actually the % increase per level that changes the value of AS on items.

Ironically, high % increase per level = lower value for AS. Low % increase per level = higher value for AS. Not by a huge amount, but the disparity exists.
That's actually not true. There is your base AS(.672 in Fiora's case) and then there is %AS modifiers, Dagger, Recurve Bow, various masteries, the %AS you get per level, Alacrity Runes, etc. All %AS is exactly the same, they only differ in how you aquire them and their values.
Quote:
Attack speed bonuses works by adding a percentage of a champion's base attack speed to his or her "base attack speed" Champions with low base attack speed will benefit less from increased attack speed than champions with high base rate of attack. One's attack speed can be increased via leveling up, items, runes, masteries, buffs, and abilities.


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

03-01-2012

Okay, we're kinda arguing at cross purposes here, and looking back I agree that my statements weren't precise enough.

Allow me to rephrase; base AS *alone* is not relevant in determining the value of additional AS.

The important factor is the DPS, which (ignoring other factors like crit, on-hit, armour, etc.) is AD * AS. A high base DPS increases the value of AS; a low base DPS decreases the value of AS.

In other words, AS is irrelevant in the comparison *if* the raw DPS is equal. You're correct that if the base DPS varies (for example, comparing two champions with different AS but the same AD), then the value of AS in terms of raw value does indeed change (and in this case would favour the champion with higher base AS).

Of course, this is purely in raw numbers. Given other factors (for example, a character with low DPS probably has more survivability), the relative value is likely to remain approximately equal. Raw numbers don't mean that much; what's more important is "can I kill that guy before I die?".