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[NEW item SUGGESTION] - ECHO WARD (consumable)

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SPEKTR1986

Senior Member

04-14-2012

bump


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bahamutkaiser

Senior Member

04-16-2012

There's not a whole lot more to be said on this, the idea is good, unfortunately good ideas dont always lead to big conversations, if you want more attention promote it on GD, this is not the place for many eyes.

You could discuss some more detailed alternatives but your better off making a new subject if your gonna detail it, and then just link this as reference.


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SmartB42E

Junior Member

04-16-2012

Lets ask one question... What makes Vision Ward so good?
It warns you if you are going to get ganked.

Lets ask another question... What would make Echo Ward so good?
It warns you if you are going to get ganked.

Basically both wards does the same.
In the end the price of vision ward comes from its way how it informs you about incoming ganks.
Or do you price the vision it gives so high?
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Brainstorm section starts here.
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I would think it should have short range and it can be seen by enemy when close enough.

Why short range and why it should be visible for enemy?

Well short range gives more information than huge one (If no map icon)
so you can locate the enemy is easier.
( Also equires more thinking work where to place it.)

Visibility for enemies would give enemy hint that he/she has been seen.
(I thought this for junglers mainly)
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Should it have hp at all? Or just timer?

Idea is this... The ward would be immortal, but it would have quite short fuse until it collapses.

Though I would like it more if it would have hp.
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Lastly, but not least we have to think about how it would affect junglers game?

If the ward is too cheap it will most likely ruin jungles, since jungles work through
the "shadows". In the end this ward does the same as vision ward, but without vision.

I have some ideas to fix some of this pricing problem.

What if the ward would be sold at the start of the game with more gold and
then it would slightly get cheaper as the time goes on?

Though the price wont have much space to move since the normal ward is quite low.

Or the wards would get more expensive after every purchase. It would make the ward only
useful for the early game, but would give jungle a way to affect lane protection.
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Ok... Some last words? Of course.

Only sinister shadow this idea has which is that it might still affect junglers too much.
Though you can only know for sure after its gone through pbe or testing.


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bahamutkaiser

Senior Member

04-16-2012

Honestly ^ those ideas are horrible.

First is that wards are bought by good players regurdless of cost to stop ganks, but mostly oppress the support because players treat them like ward boys on top of expecting them to play 0 CS, so cheaper wards would greatly improve costs for supports and many players, you spend less money to ward, and on the side, Riot should limit ward stacks and only allow one slot to fill with wards so ward purchases are pushed to other players.

Second, sight wards allow you to identify opponents and target them as in brush, so it offers many additional advantages.

Third, Riot has been trying to reduce the advantage of winning teams out warding and ward sweeping so they not only have the lead, but have better surveillance, cheaper wards make it easier on the losing team.

There are alot of pros and cons and alternatives to consider, but much of these are bad.

Now the idea of a short duration indestructible ward thad can be seen isn't bad, but we have clairvoiance and hawk shot... More of the same would be nice but a totally new ward just to make one more effect like that is not really optimized, if it lasts longer but is indestructable... Well it has its uses, but sounds like it lacks counter play, because it can't be removed with detection... Sounds OK... but its one of them binary effects.

Better would just be a super cheap 25 gold warning ward that only alerts movement, but is visible and can be attacked... But I like the OPs idea better, no point in making inferior adaptations.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

04-16-2012

Over powered. Proper ward placement completely invalidates the regular ward, because the regular ward is pretty much used for minimap vision. It's rare that anyone is actively tossing their screen over the actual warded area to make sure no one is coming; The token is often enough.

So this longer ranged, cheaper ward that doesn't grant vision but still alerts you to someone moving in the area (Pro tip; The only thing that's going to move in a river is a champion) effectively is ~just as good~ as the 75g green ward.

The one advantage that the vision ward has is seeing stationary champions. So a support would likely start with something like;

Faerie Charm - 185
2 Echo Wards - 120
1 Ward - 75
1 Stealth ward - 125

This allows them to have 6 minutes of gank free protection, 3 minutes of "Whatever I want" protection, and still a stealth ward. Sure, you don't have a health potion, but play smart and you rarely need it.


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bahamutkaiser

Senior Member

04-16-2012

Well the echo ward doesn't have to have superior range, that's just how it works in SC2, simply being cheaper but offering less information isn't going to change ward strategies, wards are already used, what they will do is make it cheaper so supports in particular arnt oppressed as much being ward mules, and less maintenance in other lanes too.

Warding is essential in high lvl play and costing a lot doesn't make ganks harder, it just makes maintenance more troublesome and costly. Ward sweeping and ward superiority is something Riot wants to leash, so making it cheaper will reduce the burden of this mechanic, it doesnt change junglers need to sweep wards so their ganks are effective.

Along with this, if cheaper stealth detection was introduced sweeping wards would be less of an investment but also less thurough, both things that would improve the surveillance meta.


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SPEKTR1986

Senior Member

04-17-2012

Thanks everyone for HOT DISCUSSIONS!

just to clarify 1 thing:
WARD SHOULDN'T BE IMMORTAL - as was said then there is no countering it!
Imagine enemy ward stays at dragon or baron, your team knows it but nothing can do!

prob I also should add restriction:
ECHO WARD can't detect through walls! like vision wards!
so putting it topside baron won't show what is going inside!



about putting idea in GD, the problem I encountered there - forum updates very very fast!
Still, I'll try!


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SPEKTR1986

Senior Member

04-19-2012

nope! GE didn't help!

people without explanations just raged!


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SPEKTR1986

Senior Member

05-01-2012

so, will we get this item to test?


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bahamutkaiser

Senior Member

05-01-2012

Have to get it in front of riots face just for them to notice, and that woln't happen here, make a simpler, refined version of your idea, with a little more explanation, you can borrow some of mine, play e a link here so we can find your discussion in GD, and bump at least once a day, if nobody else is bumping... Or maybe anyway... Best thing to do is take time replying in simple manner, and dont feed the trolls. It may not work, but it's better than here... At least it has a chance to get a response, you can just go to the developer tracker if you need some reinforcement, look at 10 pages of it and see which forums there responding in...