I lost 400 elo last night, and I cried myself to sleep

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Phourc

Senior Member

02-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavderion View Post
But Pantheon and Wukong and Jarvan and Urgot aren't purple. Am I missing something?
I think someone slipped into WoW parlance, where purple items are 'epic'. I could be wrong, but I've definitely not heard the phrase used in quite that way before xP


Quote:
Originally Posted by KSHarrison View Post
For the record, though, I had 39% CDR on Urgot with masteries. I don't go brutalizer because I don't see a reason to if I go Ionian boots, and the glacial shroud is one of my early core items. On Dom a lot of people get armor early/mid game, and a LW is going to go a lot farther when they do, so it is worth saving for that. I also run full apen marks/quints.

Brut might be a little more effective for the short amount of time it takes me to earn an extra 1000 gold and buy LW. At the same time, I can't complain buying a Glacial Shroud over it because it is an item that will not fall off like the brutalizer. I also can't always kite an opponent, especially with gap closers and multiple enemies, so the armor is really good, and the mana turns into + 14 damage (I buy manamune following that).
This is confusing to me, because it doesn't match up with the build we saw xP

You have no CDR items, and I think it's pretty well agreed that CDR is one of the strongest stats on dominion... you even said yourself you usually run 39% cdr.

Now, the bit about brutalizer falling off lategame baffles me. Dominion is not the kind of game where you ever have to worry about getting a full build, cheap items with lots of stats are generally godly. You won't hit the amount of gold you ever will in a 60 minute+ SR game where each slot with an item under 3k is hurting your overall stats. *If* you're running near CDR cap you don't necessarily need a brutalizer, it's just a very good item overall.

And I'll say it, IE on urgot seems silly to me, most of his damage is from his rape rockets, and those can't crit. I wouldn't expect to see it unless the game was really one sided and you were just messing around.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KSHarrison

Senior Member

02-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phourc View Post

This is confusing to me, because it doesn't match up with the build we saw xP

You have no CDR items, and I think it's pretty well agreed that CDR is one of the strongest stats on dominion... you even said yourself you usually run 39% cdr.

Now, the bit about brutalizer falling off lategame baffles me. Dominion is not the kind of game where you ever have to worry about getting a full build, cheap items with lots of stats are generally godly. You won't hit the amount of gold you ever will in a 60 minute+ SR game where each slot with an item under 3k is hurting your overall stats. *If* you're running near CDR cap you don't necessarily need a brutalizer, it's just a very good item overall.

And I'll say it, IE on urgot seems silly to me, most of his damage is from his rape rockets, and those can't crit. I wouldn't expect to see it unless the game was really one sided and you were just messing around.
I have five Urgot matches on my history. I bought Ionian boots each time and a glacial shroud 4 times (other time didn't reach it in time). I was going to finish with a FH but only managed that once. That is 34% CDR with a planned 39% each game I played with him. I also don't buy IE, either. If I had the gold, I'd take entropy instead. What build are you looking at?

That's a good point regarding not finishing builds. Still, if I buy both Glacial Shroud and Ionian Boots, I don't see a reason to get brutalizer? Also, while the games don't last long, most champs have some form of armor early enough that it lasts most of the match, and, as soon as they buy even a chain vest, the LW would be better to have. If you buy both brut and LW, the armor pen on brutalizer effectively becomes 9, which is probably equal to about one Q. That's not bad; I'll think about it.

Do you just not use the Glacial Shroud --> FH? I've had some good experiences with the extra tankiness. It helps to not be melted by a gap closer + quick CC before you even have a chance to kite, and Urgot is no slouch anyways at dueling. The two combined often make it quite difficult to take Urgot down, especially if vs. melee. Also very strong vs. Ranged carries. Goes great with Terror Capacitor.

Edit: Ohhh are you referring to the Garen build?

Ha, I see your point now. Well, Garen's innate defenses synergize really well with a Frozen Mallet and basic armor (chain vest + Negatron). So, I get a mallet first, then I build damage. A FH is a bit overkill, so it's hard to find good CDR items for Garen. There's only really Youmuu's. If you look at my build, the only place I could see it going is in place of the IE. That tradeoff would have potentially left me with a Youmuu's + 1200 gold. Worth it? Alternatively, I could have gone Brut + 2500 gold. Worth it? Considering the high AD ratios on Garen, damage is preferred over 9-14 armor pen (brut+ Youmuu's, respectively). The CDR is 1-1.5 seconds off my abilities, which isn't tremendous, given the trade off.

Also, I farm every chance I get, especially with Garen. That 10 minion game was a 4v5 from the start; there was no time to farm. We came really close. Pretty sad loss.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-28-2012

I guess it really comes down to what you want out of your build, and when you want it. I've experimented with a non-brutalizer build but it wasn't due to gs/fh, it was me trying to get my cdr as early as possible with flat cdr glyphs, Ionian boots and 15/15 masteries(8.1+4%cdr, avoiding the old crit talents). That build wasn't the greatest, especially after the mastery change to flat AD, simply because it traded a bit of damage to get what I wanted(6arp+executioner from offense).

My point is, gs/fh is great and it gives a lot of what you want, but what always bothers me is *when* you get it. I've since gone back to rushing Ionian+Bruta because I want to have 27%~ + cdr as early as possible for 4 Qs. Gs is a strong item and gives you a lot of what you want; cdr, some mana sustain, tankiness, but when are you getting it? If you're building Ionian to Gs you're already at 34%cdr with 4% from offense which means you forgo Brutalizer because you're wasting itemization on cdr, especially when you upgrade to FH. Even if you leave off 4% in offense for something subpar you're hitting 35% with FH so you're still wasting itemization on Brutalizer. My question is, if you're forgoing Brutalizer when are you getting damage? After boots2+glacial? Alternatively you could use different boots(mercs) and go boots1>bruta>gs and that makes a lot of sense but then you're setting back your cdr substantially. This is the main reason I avoid Gs and prefer Ionian>Bruta early, getting Atmas as an armor item if I want armor(usually fairly soon).

I think I would prefer postponing cdr while being a bit tankier than postponing damage to be a bit tankier, but either just feels awkward.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KSHarrison

Senior Member

02-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by v4v3nd3774 View Post
I guess it really comes down to what you want out of your build, and when you want it. I've experimented with a non-brutalizer build but it wasn't due to gs/fh, it was me trying to get my cdr as early as possible with flat cdr glyphs, Ionian boots and 15/15 masteries(8.1+4%cdr, avoiding the old crit talents). That build wasn't the greatest, especially after the mastery change to flat AD, simply because it traded a bit of damage to get what I wanted(6arp+executioner from offense).

My point is, gs/fh is great and it gives a lot of what you want, but what always bothers me is *when* you get it. I've since gone back to rushing Ionian+Bruta because I want to have 27%~ + cdr as early as possible for 4 Qs. Gs is a strong item and gives you a lot of what you want; cdr, some mana sustain, tankiness, but when are you getting it? If you're building Ionian to Gs you're already at 34%cdr with 4% from offense which means you forgo Brutalizer because you're wasting itemization on cdr, especially when you upgrade to FH. Even if you leave off 4% in offense for something subpar you're hitting 35% with FH so you're still wasting itemization on Brutalizer. My question is, if you're forgoing Brutalizer when are you getting damage? After boots2+glacial? Alternatively you could use different boots(mercs) and go boots1>bruta>gs and that makes a lot of sense but then you're setting back your cdr substantially. This is the main reason I avoid Gs and prefer Ionian>Bruta early, getting Atmas as an armor item if I want armor(usually fairly soon).

I think I would prefer postponing cdr while being a bit tankier than postponing damage to be a bit tankier, but either just feels awkward.
Quote:
sorry for long post, I summarized this below. I'm really tired and can't organize my thoughts
I appreciate your feedback. I, also, have tried both routes, and this is the one that works for me. One thing to consider is that AD casters' abilities scale really hard with ranks. Once they reach rank 5, they start to drop, but rank 5 is gotten at 9, and won't start to fall off until after 11.

So, imo, at least for me, there's nothing wrong with added defense early for some AD casters. And the CDR from GS is a form of "attack speed" for casters, so it does translate to dps. On Urgot, for example, Q is your main attack, and GS increases theoretical damage output by 15%. That is good damage. Throw on the extra mana and armor to boot. You will solo anyone. Also, Urgot's E plus 31 apen from full apen marks/quints/Sunder puts players at 0 armor for a lot of the initial levels. Brut apen is actually wasted if bought too early on Urgot. I also rush LW after because it is amazing on Urgot with E. The time frame for Brut to be useful is kind of small.

Excuse this next paragraph, I thought the %CDR was about 30% for 4 Qs? If not, then disregard this paragraph I mean mathematically, it should be higher than 27%? I know I can fire my Q at about 0.2 seconds left on the timer, and mathematically that translates to needing 30.5% CDR. At any rate, having some margin for error is good because you aren't always able to spam Q's as quickly as you'd like.
Quote:
Finally, GS allows you to skip CDR blues because with 4% offensive mastery plus Ionian boots and GS you hit 34% CDR, which is just enough to comfortably achieve the 4 acid hunters per Corrrosive Charge milestone. Brutalizer, at only 10% CDR, leaves you at 29% and does not make this possible without CDR blues. Trading CDR blues for MR/level is really nice for the extra MR, which is difficult to itemize on Urgot.
Summary
At any rate, I think we can both agree that either brut or the GS should be rushed. If GS is taken, I don't see a need for the brut, as I tend to follow with LW. But if you get brut, you still might want to consider GS because it leads to FH and a lot of useful anti AD defense. That's why I think a build without brut does scale better into mid/late. The question is effectiveness early, and I think Urgot's abilities' base damage scale with rank really hard early in the game so he'll never have damage problems early on. I have no problem with my damage once I hit LW and manamune. That lasts me the whole game, actually. I mean, maybe if you are looking to melt someone in one E+4Qs, then yeah, rushing GS won't do it. But...you can often get them near dead.

This is my reasoning, anyways. Give it a try, maybe you will find yourself without damage problems. But then again, I also see your point of view, and the most important thing is to do what works for you. If you are seeing success that way, then by all means keep it up! I saw a high elo stream for example rush a trinity force and brut (granted he was fed). I don't think this is right for Urgot because it's low damage for the cost and he kites and doesn't need the MS, AS, or crit that early, but this pro did it and won the match. Thanks for the feedback, though. If you do try it, let me know what you think!

End Summary

If you decide to try my build, I have been running the following:

1 point Q, W ,E followed by R>Q>W>E

1.Tear (charge to 100 mana on platform) + boots
2. Ionian boots + GS or Ionian boots + LW, depending on whether I see many chain vests out yet (rare). I guess you could build half an LW now if you really wanted the damage. But I think the CDR milestone is more important.
3. Finish GS or LW, can upgrade manamune if you are near 2k mana. LW vs. Manamune is a tough call for me to make.
4. Finish LW or Manamune. You now have Ionian boots, GS, LW, Manamune
5. Entropy/Trinity Force. Never reached this so I don't know. I think if you can kite them well, get Zeal/Sheen and go trinity force. If you can't (I had this problem vs a blitzcrank with mallet), I think entropy is the better choice due to slow on active to help you kite more than 8% zeal ms (at this point your shield is often broken before you can escape mallet). Or maybe if you absolutely can't kite a sheen would be better for more damage.

6. Fit in a negatron cloak after step 3, whenever you feel like it's needed. If AP gets really strong, upgrade to Odyn's. Also upgrade FH whenever you feel AD is getting too stronk.

LW vs. Manamune is a tough call to make. Certainly, if your opponents have a chain vest, LW is better. What happens is they usually don't have one, but they get one as soon as you finish Manamune, and then I am left wishing I had LW. If they go straight to a thornmail, you are in real trouble. I would need more testing to figure this one out. It just sucks getting LW too late in the game, but the damage on manamune is also nice to have, especially since it is so cheap.

I wasn't sure about tear at first, but Urgot really charges it at insane rates. By 19-20 min and match end I usually have it at least 600-700 mana. Considering you pay 2000 for the manamune, it's a really cheap +60-70 AD and easy spammage all game. If you control the heal runes well, then you can build it even faster. If the match went on extremely long, this is the item I would ultimately sell (replace with Entropy or Trinity Force, whichever was not gotten yet). Just make sure that if you do buy it, you make use of your ability to spam. I can see a scenario where if you aren't used to having it, you don't take advantage of how much you can spam. It's less punishing if you miss your combo, you can throw up your shield more often vs. harass/counter harass, and on every E+Q combo, too. Maybe I am living in SR land, though. But Manamune is still great, for sure, IF you have GS and are active enough to build up your tear, which I don't find difficult to do.

But yeah, I am not pro, am low elo, whatever, so maybe I am all wrong. Feel free to make adjustments as needed. I'd be interested to know how it works for someone else, so please let me know your results if you do try it. Thanks!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xavderion

Senior Member

02-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denambren View Post
I think you missed the point.

I guess you couldn't grasp that Tier S and Tier 1 champs will improve your odds of winning. Re-read my post a few times. You'll get it eventually.

Let's pretend Tier S are orange and Tier 1 are purple, if you want to get so technical that you completely ignore the base argument being made.
*giggle*


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSHarrison View Post
I appreciate your feedback. I, also, have tried both routes, and this is the one that works for me. One thing to consider is that AD casters' abilities scale really hard with ranks. Once they reach rank 5, they start to drop, but rank 5 is gotten at 9, and won't start to fall off until after 11.

So, imo, at least for me, there's nothing wrong with added defense early for some AD casters. And the CDR from GS is a form of "attack speed" for casters, so it does translate to dps. On Urgot, for example, Q is your main attack, and GS increases theoretical damage output by 15%. That is good damage. Throw on the extra mana and armor to boot. You will solo anyone. Also, Urgot's E plus 31 apen from full apen marks/quints/Sunder puts players at 0 armor for a lot of the initial levels. Brut apen is actually wasted if bought too early on Urgot. I also rush LW after because it is amazing on Urgot with E. The time frame for Brut to be useful is kind of small.

Excuse this next paragraph, I thought the %CDR was about 30% for 4 Qs? If not, then disregard this paragraph I mean mathematically, it should be higher than 27%? I know I can fire my Q at about 0.2 seconds left on the timer, and mathematically that translates to needing 30.5% CDR. At any rate, having some margin for error is good because you aren't always able to spam Q's as quickly as you'd like.


Summary
At any rate, I think we can both agree that either brut or the GS should be rushed. If GS is taken, I don't see a need for the brut, as I tend to follow with LW. But if you get brut, you still might want to consider GS because it leads to FH and a lot of useful anti AD defense. That's why I think a build without brut does scale better into mid/late. The question is effectiveness early, and I think Urgot's abilities' base damage scale with rank really hard early in the game so he'll never have damage problems early on. I have no problem with my damage once I hit LW and manamune. That lasts me the whole game, actually. I mean, maybe if you are looking to melt someone in one E+4Qs, then yeah, rushing GS won't do it. But...you can often get them near dead.

This is my reasoning, anyways. Give it a try, maybe you will find yourself without damage problems. But then again, I also see your point of view, and the most important thing is to do what works for you. If you are seeing success that way, then by all means keep it up! I saw a high elo stream for example rush a trinity force and brut (granted he was fed). I don't think this is right for Urgot because it's low damage for the cost and he kites and doesn't need the MS, AS, or crit that early, but this pro did it and won the match. Thanks for the feedback, though. If you do try it, let me know what you think!

End Summary

If you decide to try my build, I have been running the following:

1 point Q, W ,E followed by R>Q>W>E

1.Tear (charge to 100 mana on platform) + boots
2. Ionian boots + GS or Ionian boots + LW, depending on whether I see many chain vests out yet (rare). I guess you could build half an LW now if you really wanted the damage. But I think the CDR milestone is more important.
3. Finish GS or LW, can upgrade manamune if you are near 2k mana. LW vs. Manamune is a tough call for me to make.
4. Finish LW or Manamune. You now have Ionian boots, GS, LW, Manamune
5. Entropy/Trinity Force. Never reached this so I don't know. I think if you can kite them well, get Zeal/Sheen and go trinity force. If you can't (I had this problem vs a blitzcrank with mallet), I think entropy is the better choice due to slow on active to help you kite more than 8% zeal ms (at this point your shield is often broken before you can escape mallet). Or maybe if you absolutely can't kite a sheen would be better for more damage.

6. Fit in a negatron cloak after step 3, whenever you feel like it's needed. If AP gets really strong, upgrade to Odyn's. Also upgrade FH whenever you feel AD is getting too stronk.

LW vs. Manamune is a tough call to make. Certainly, if your opponents have a chain vest, LW is better. What happens is they usually don't have one, but they get one as soon as you finish Manamune, and then I am left wishing I had LW. If they go straight to a thornmail, you are in real trouble. I would need more testing to figure this one out. It just sucks getting LW too late in the game, but the damage on manamune is also nice to have, especially since it is so cheap.

I wasn't sure about tear at first, but Urgot really charges it at insane rates. By 19-20 min and match end I usually have it at least 600-700 mana. Considering you pay 2000 for the manamune, it's a really cheap +60-70 AD and easy spammage all game. If you control the heal runes well, then you can build it even faster. If the match went on extremely long, this is the item I would ultimately sell (replace with Entropy or Trinity Force, whichever was not gotten yet). Just make sure that if you do buy it, you make use of your ability to spam. I can see a scenario where if you aren't used to having it, you don't take advantage of how much you can spam. It's less punishing if you miss your combo, you can throw up your shield more often vs. harass/counter harass, and on every E+Q combo, too. Maybe I am living in SR land, though. But Manamune is still great, for sure, IF you have GS and are active enough to build up your tear, which I don't find difficult to do.

But yeah, I am not pro, am low elo, whatever, so maybe I am all wrong. Feel free to make adjustments as needed. I'd be interested to know how it works for someone else, so please let me know your results if you do try it. Thanks!
Well, regarding the cdr needed to hit 4 times it's actually only roughly 25%. 2.0 - 25% = 1.5sec cd Q. 1.5 x 3 = 4.5. E stays on for 5 seconds. It's x 3 because you're going to shoot one just as E lands and just as E is finishing, meaning you don't need to count the cd of the last one. I say 27%~ because hitting 4 on 25% is pretty difficult to do, especially consistantly. It only leaves .5 seconds for human error and latency on all four of your Qs. I've found 28% to be more than comfortable and 29%(ionian+bruta+4%mastery) is just fine. Just keep in mind that Gs technically doesn't outright increase your dps by 15% unless you hit the breakpoint allowing you to cast a 4th Q on a lock or you're spamming blind Qs.

I will say I've never really considered the fact that pre-9 he's still gaining damage from lvling Q and that after is when he'll need to actually build it to keep increasing the numbers. That said, I still like having damage early. I used to use boots+ tear into bruta then finish manamune but still felt like Tear held back my damage a bit for the first few lvls. I'm not sure Bruta's flat pen could ever be considered useless. Flat pen is pretty hard to come by, other than runes, and depending on what you're facing you could have players with upwards of 70+ armor early game. Later on when you have LW Bruta still helps you because it brings the values lower for %pen to work off of and the lower values are always worth more. I have on occasion sold Bruta when being fed, farmed and itemcapped rather than upgrading to Yomuus but that's only because I value 60+ AD and other effects higher than the crit and on use 1350~ gold spent on upgrading to Yomuus would give me.

I think the only way I'd really prefer to use gs is if I ran a different set of boots, because like you said with Ionian boots it's really bruta or gs and having one really reduces the need for the other. Have you tried mercs+bruta+gs? You're also running manamune in there(which, agreed, is a very efficient item) so this would set you back quite a bit. I'm trying mp5 runes atm to avoid manamune allowing a quicker build, getting to his big needs more quickly, and allowing you to counterbuild sooner.

I feel like I want to try gs just because I'm building armor every game anyway, but just don't know how to make it work well.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ActionButlerGO

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-28-2012

I'm wondering the same thing.

I went 0 for 5 last night with one disconnect, one first time player, one genuinely awful team, and two pretty decent games. I was at 1300+ at the start of last night. I suspect I lost at least 60 elo over the course of the evening.


I know I'm not a fantastic player. Certainly not 1900 elo, but what are you supposed to do when your team charges into a windmill fight one at a time? Or they all rush in as a group, but suddenly retreat for no logical reason, leaving you to melt in a 1v4? I can't even win with Warwick in situations like that. I feel lucky if I'm able to get a positive K/D. Could I play better? Hell yes. Would me playing better have made up for a Yorick Dc or a first time MF who fed 11 kills to the enemy Malz?

Does it get better once you hit level 30? And, if so, should I just grind through co-op SR games until I hit the level cap then come back to Dominion? Should I give up on blind pick?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionButlerGO View Post
I'm wondering the same thing.

I went 0 for 5 last night with one disconnect, one first time player, one genuinely awful team, and two pretty decent games. I was at 1300+ at the start of last night. I suspect I lost at least 60 elo over the course of the evening.


I know I'm not a fantastic player. Certainly not 1900 elo, but what are you supposed to do when your team charges into a windmill fight one at a time?
Honestly? Play backdoor-AP Shaco. This is generally bad advice but at very low Elo this can be effective. Two reasons: 1) If the other team is just as inexperienced as yours it might actually work 2) pulling players from the enemy team away from top to their mid and their bot will lighten the load for your 3-man-troup de terror that keeps rushing full steam into top, allowing them to possibly capture it while you distract/annoy.

You won't get thanked, you won't get praised, in fact most players on both teams will probably hate your face and flame you forever but if your teams are that disorganized and inexperienced it's honestly your best bet. Around 1500-1600 this will stop being as effective.

boots+prospector's>Sorcs>dfg>deathcap or sweeper>deathcap. R>E>W>Q. Sorcs and E first allow you to contribute to poke/harrass early and let you 1v1 or gank well. You're not going to instagib 5x box someone, you shouldn't try. Cdr and some mp5 are important, hence dfg. The active also lets you contribute to fights you're forced into. Good use of R and Q+E allow you to harrass even two people at a neutralized point.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ActionButlerGO

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by v4v3nd3774 View Post
Honestly? Play backdoor-AP Shaco. This is generally bad advice but at very low Elo this can be effective. Two reasons: 1) If the other team is just as inexperienced as yours it might actually work 2) pulling players from the enemy team away from top to their mid and their bot will lighten the load for your 3-man-troup de terror that keeps rushing full steam into top, allowing them to possibly capture it while you distract/annoy.
I was afraid someone would say something like that.

The last think I want to do is play grossly broken champs, using poor tactics, to crawl up to a respectable elo, but it seems like there is no other choice in blind pick. Not because the other team is picking broken champs, too, but because everyone there seems to hate the idea of working as a team or, really, winning.

Like I said, I'm not a great player. I will never claim to be a great player. Could I do better in my games? Of course I could. Is it genuinely impossible to get teammates in blind pick who A) have already played Dominion and B) won't disappear when we start teamfights, though?

Like I asked before, does it get at all better when you hit level 30 or should I just swap to draft mode right now? Since I'm not yet 30, I'm hesitant to do draft, but if it is the only way to get a consistent level of play, I'm willing to try.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionButlerGO View Post
I was afraid someone would say something like that.

The last think I want to do is play grossly broken champs, using poor tactics, to crawl up to a respectable elo, but it seems like there is no other choice in blind pick. Not because the other team is picking broken champs, too, but because everyone there seems to hate the idea of working as a team or, really, winning.

Like I said, I'm not a great player. I will never claim to be a great player. Could I do better in my games? Of course I could. Is it genuinely impossible to get teammates in blind pick who A) have already played Dominion and B) won't disappear when we start teamfights, though?

Like I asked before, does it get at all better when you hit level 30 or should I just swap to draft mode right now? Since I'm not yet 30, I'm hesitant to do draft, but if it is the only way to get a consistent level of play, I'm willing to try.
I'm not sure, I rarely play blind. If I do it's because friends force me into it :O Regarding your level and Dominion, it doesn't matter at all. Everyone's grouped together, sorted by Elo. So no, 30 won't change anything. I'd say by the time you hit 1500~ at least you should see less very inexperienced people, as you're far enough away from the entry point for Dominion.

And Shaco isn't that grossly over powered just abnoxious as all hell. Higher Elo people tend to buy sweeper on something with a little mobility to catch/kill him as he constantly roams between your mid/bot trying to backcap, making it a 3v3 top then 4v3 shortly after You just won't see those less experienced players reacting that well.