@riot: Throwing Omen away for Riven?

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Parmethius

Senior Member

02-26-2012

Ok... I could have sworn a couple of Reds said that people thought Omen was a stealth assassin. That is one of the most ridiculous statements ever! He OBVIOUSLY wasn't going to be a stealth assassin since we have no STEALTH REWORK yet (or really very much info on it so much waiting.... so little results).

Also, I just want another void based OR monster champion. I don't care what role they play. All the humanoids are getting boring... And in a few days we are getting another champion who fights with a melee weapon >.< How repetitive!


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The Ouiji

Member

02-26-2012

Why don't you just get ridge of his spikes like this? He didn't have the spikes he could be melee. Attachment 390223
You could just keep the spikes on his tail and have that be a ranged ability. Kinda like how a Manticore shoots spikes out of its tail.


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Luckybed

Senior Member

02-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Bio-organic spines don't convey melee *or* ranged very well. In fact, given the number of responses to this thread, there's a solid set of people envisioning a ranged character and a solid set of people who think he's strictly melee.

That's the problem - He doesn't look like he belongs to any class. It goes back to making visuals intuitive - Regardless of wanting to make him melee/ranged/stealth/assassin/fighter, his art would still need to change to solve that problem - Visually, he'd actually be a lot stronger of a character without spines altogether.

It's true that some characters violate this principle - but it's far more dominant on dark/monstrous champions. Monsterous champions typically have to work the extra mile to avoid appearing like a miniboss of sorts - just due to the nature of 'Monsters are things to be killed.'

Any one of the three faults that I've listed could potentially derail a character - but Omen was in a special case of having all three of them at once and each solution to one part of the trio pulls apart from the other two - For example, the spines thing I've listed above, removing it makes him a stronger intuitive concept from a gameplay perspective - and it makes him look utterly generic.

Take Kog'maw for instance: Kog'maw's visual analogue is a puppy which gave him personality. He's also a cannon - which solves #1 neatly. Being slightly weak at looking unique is fine - because you know, being a puppy cannon compensates for that.

I dislike this general line of argument - It's an inconsistency argument, but it tries to justify negatives by saying other negatives exist and are fine. Like 'I know a guy who stole stuff and got away with it, so I should be fine with stealing stuff.'

Don't get me wrong, It's a valid argument but we're steadily working on trying to figure out better standards.

Looking like there could be a million of you doesn't mean that you've successfully implied that he's a swarm oriented character - You bring up the example of broodmother - but there's the visual analogue - Insects are part of swarms, and are clearly recognizable as swarm hive - Looking like an insect is what makes you think swarm - not looking like a faceless creature.

Your other point about making a splitter champion is slightly more difficult to pull off. But looking like a minion of a demon army doesn't mean you've successfully made something that looks like he's a splitter character. You don't imply splitting by implying 'I look like a minion.' You imply splitting by establishing why/how something splits. For example, there's The Ooze and The Pandaren Brewmaster who do this decently - you split into the classic elements and you reform back into a more whole character.

Lastly, Omen's major problem is that he's a combination of niche tropes. Needles plus Bio-Organic Alien plus Chesire Cat goes from niche onto niche onto niche. You get kind of like the 'B' movie effect with this - Completely loved cult classics that are awesome - but filled with flaws that no one really wants to address or fix because they don't matter to them.
Why not have that mixture?

Would it not be perfectly acceptable to have a darkened strike that starts from A as by an eerie smile that has a range to B? As in, a channel move that has it's origin at a point and then function like Rumble's ult but ONLY for damage with a low CD.

Make that also combine with a short armor and magic resist increase as in phantoming without making him untargetable. (I am still hating the Fizz and Shaco eluding X moves mechanic XD.)

Add the ability for his spikes to latch on for a bleed and reveal. AND when activated deal additional damage based on the amount of bleed.

And for the ult........I have no idea. My ideas become too over-powered....... Have an ability that rewards him for being hit by restoring X damage per hit to him for Y percentage.

Passive being something that i don't care about.........ummmm........Reduces X magic damage and converts it to AD. As in Kassidin clone. Eh, it's ok.

You get the ranged attack by the Chesire Strike. The champion is encourage TWICE to be in the middle of the fight. AND YOU GET SPIKES!!!!!

Hahaha, not too shabby for several minutes of work.


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Agilism

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Senior Member

02-26-2012

So Riot says they are working to global appeal, but a pretty big number of their NA community is tired of seeing humanoids, yet, we are a few days away from yet another humanoid. To me, Fiora, or whatever her name is, is just another person with a weapon. I would rather see a "generic" creature with a unique ability then a human with a weapon. Most of the champions are human shaped. Look at Blitzcrank. He's a robot with human like features. Xerath is a Mass of energy... in the shape of a human. Nasus and Renekton and Volibear are animals... that walk on 2 legs and act like humans. If Omen were to walk on all 4s at all times, that alone would make him pretty unique.


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Crow AU

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Senior Member

02-26-2012

@Reds

You say Omen looks too "melee" what about Kayle? She looks melee and yet she can go ranged.

And with Omen not having a personality why not give him ability passive visual effect like a void buff on his ranged attacks that changes some effects on them or makes him permanently ooze lava of some sort.

EDIT: Just remember he's not void based, but what i said on passive visuals still stand, and if I'm not mistaken there is currently no champion with a "permanent" added visual effect to a passive to once you level up an ability.

Edit: Just remembered Master Yi existed, so for an example like what you get with Wuju style.


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Ourboros

Senior Member

02-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehCrow View Post
@Reds

You say Omen looks too "melee" what about Kayle? She looks melee and yet she can go ranged.
sooo, mabye have him start out with no spikes, then have a toggle spell thats makes him grow spines and become ranged? other abilities (even passive) can change according to what you have toggled. role in a team can also depend on which one you choose.



or is this too much like nid to be unique? I think i'd be really interesting


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Mr T Virus

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Senior Member

02-26-2012

Ugh... I know what I want to ask, but just having a hard time putting it into words... Anyways here goes.

Basically, the primary reason Omen was shelved (or canceled) was because aesthetically, he didn't look the role of a ranged AD carry. Depending on Riot's feelings on the matter, I can see three possiblities that can come out fo this.

1. Omen's model is reworked to better convey that he's (or it) is a ranged fighter.
2. Omen's model is reworked so that he can play another role (Bruiser, Jungler, etc).
3. Riot scraps him entirely.

I dunno about you guys, but I'd much rather see either option 1 or 2 here. I honestly believe that the League is way overdue for another 'Monster Champion'. The closest thing that we've gotten to a true 'monster' as of late would be Skarner, and his release was back in August. C'mon Riot, there's plenty of mythos out there where you can draw inspiration from when it comes to monsters.

TL;DR - The only really safe thing that I can say is that Omen ever does come to the League, he will not be the same.


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Zeirnaton

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Senior Member

02-26-2012

I would like to see they day omen could be brought in to the league but he doesn't really seem like a full range champion not sure if thats what you guys wanted to go with when omen was initially going for.

seems like he'd be more fragile melee based type champion with a type of ammo system that would allow him to shoot his spikes at his enemies perhaps reworking so he could possibly burrow him self wouldn't have been to bad idea. I definitely think of him as something like you said a beefed up zergling/hydralisk hybrid

I would still buy him so meh i love monster champs


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fueled

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Recruiter

02-26-2012

Blind monk springs to mind here. I mean, his lore is pretty bad... He started out trying to be a summoner, failed at that lit himself on fire and yet the only thing apparently damaged was his eyes (i mean, he even has hair) and joined the league as a form of repentance?

Here's a champ that was backshelved and scrapped, but the community wanted him bad enough and you guys listened. And, I'm pretty sure he's a pretty popular champ. Not to mention, that his passive, ulti, and safe guard have nothing to do with his whole "using sound to see" package.

I realize that most of the reds are against Omen and we probably won't see him, but I know alot of us like the look/idea of him.

Kinda sad really, when a company passes up giving the community something they'd like/want because they'd rather pursue ideas that will make the company more money. I'm not knocking Riot, and I understand a business is a business. But it's still sad, and I guess that's just Riot maturing as a company.


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Crow AU

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Senior Member

02-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeirnaton View Post
I would like to see they day omen could be brought in to the league but he doesn't really seem like a full range champion not sure if thats what you guys wanted to go with when omen was initially going for.

seems like he'd be more fragile melee based type champion with a type of ammo system that would allow him to shoot his spikes at his enemies.

I would still buy him so meh i love monster champs
I really REALLY like this idea, keep him melee based champion with 2 close-range abilities and a DOT spell pre-6 and make his ultimate the ability to shoot his spikes on an ammo system and give him a passive stealth?

EDIT: Another idea, make his arms really REALLY long close enough to range right?