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My name is Renekton, and I dislike towers.

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MostlySilent

Senior Member

02-21-2012

(I'd first like to apologize for the length, the first part is verbose for fun, skip the first couple of paragraphs to get to the real point, I'm tired of inconsistencies in what does and doesn't work vs towers, among other issues, the quote of myself is a comparison of Renekton's W to Shyvana's Twin Bite and Talon's Noxian Diplomacy.)


So I really, REALLY want to kill them as fast as possible.

But, what's that, I can't use my W (Ruthless Predator) on towers!


Wait a minute, perhaps that's fair I might kill towers too fast ya'know with an auto attack reset and a double hit.

Wait a minute, that other lizard... Shyvana, yeah that other lizard who happens to be a lot smaller than I am.


Gets to use her Q on towers. (Twin Bite)

But wait, that's not an auto attack reset and a double hit... wait yes it is.


And it hits harder than my Ruthless Predator unless I have fury, and the stun doesn't matter to towers anyway. Oh, and it's physical damage. Oh and its cooldown is lower with scaling back as I keep hitting the tower making it drastically lower.


Oh.


And Talon get's to use Noxian Diplomacy.
Nasus gets Siphoning Strike.
Garen gets Decisive Strike.


EDIT: And Blitzcrank's Power Fist

And Sivir's Ricochet (But not Vayne's Tumble apparently)
And Wukong's Crushing Blow



Supposedly Yorick's Q (Omen of War) resets his auto attack and Yorick hits the tower with it, but no ghoul is spawned. So basically the same as Ruthless Predator. S'posedly the damage from the Q itself isn't applied, and the buff is kept until it runs out (15 seconds) so he's in the same boat as me, even if he's not nearly mantastic enough for it.



What is this, why am I left out? All I want to do is use my on-next-hit proc to attack towers like everyone else.


tl;dr Why can't Ruthless Predator be used on towers while Twin Bite, Decisive Strike, Noxian Diplomacy, and Siphoning Strike can?


On the topic of things like.

Jax
Poppy
Mordekaiser

Those all deal magic damage, which does make them different than the others. (And the only spell that damages buildings is Rammus' Tremors, which specifically states this as an effect. The only other one that did, Heimerdinger's Grenade, got nerfed lik 4 times until that effect was removed. So magic damage spells not affecting towers is a lot more consistent than physical on-hits not.)

Yeah it's still sort of an inconsistency, but Ruthless Predator is a worse offender due to being physical damage with the others that do work being physical damage.

Plus Poppy and Mordekaiser's on-hits are huge, huge damage on a really low CD. Not a justification against it, just throwing that out there.





Mathcraft on page 5 for those of you who like mathcraft.

I don't really, but it's there to show the numbers on Ruthless Predator vs towers using a 200 AD benchmark is weaker than Talon's Noxian Diplomacy and that other lizard's Twin Bite. (Shyvana)




Quote:
MostlySilent:
It's 135 + 225% total AD.

So you'd need 200 AD to deal 585.

With a 9 second CD, and only with fury.

Without fury that number is lowered to 390. Still on a 9 second cooldown.



Shyvana's twin bite is 200% her damage on a 6 second cooldown reduced by auto attacks.

So let's say she's auto attacking once a second, 3 second cooldown on a 200% damage auto attack reset proc that doesn't stun her for a half second, slowing down autos.

Well, with 200 AD she's hitting 400s, which is higher than non-fury Ruthless Predator, but lower than Ruthless with fury. After being corrected that Shyvana's Q cooldown is not lowered by auto attacking towers, that still leaves the damage she can deal in average every 9 seconds at 600. Higher than Renekton's furious Ruthless Predator.




Talon's Q, Noxian Diplomacy.

150 + 1 total AD + .3 bonus AD is the damage it deals to towers while resetting the auto attack timer.

4 second cooldown.

Talon's base AD at level 18 is 105.8, we'll go with 106.

This is 150 + 106 + 28.2 (28) damage for his Q reset on a 4 second cooldown vs 9.

That's 284 damage on his proc, at less than half the cooldown. With no need for the cooldown to be reduced by auto attacks.

This means that for every Ruthless Predator Renekton uses, assuming he has fury for it would be 585 damage in the time it takes Talon's Noxian Diplomacy to deal 639.

Once again, it doesn't stun Talon for a half second either. And this is assuming Renekton always has fury for his Ruthless Predator.



We're also leaving out the fact that with the lower cooldowns the auto attack reset counts for more because they're getting more autos in as well.



So really, Renekton's Ruthless Predator is on the weaker side of tower killing madness when it comes to on-hit procs.




I was flipping through my old threads out of boredom and I ran across this. I never got a straight answer and it still bothers me.

I don't really want to buff Renekton at this point, but I do like consistency and things working as expected so I stand by they should all work or none at all.

Also, also, I'll edit the math in a second. It's dated from my last quote.


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Satchel

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Because that would make sense.


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TheAmberTeahouse

Senior Member

02-21-2012

A fury charged Ruthless predator would tear towers apart. Its already his highest damaging skill.


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Kody119

Senior Member

02-21-2012

because riot is ascared of aligators


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AHUEAHUEAHUEA

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Because the tower doesn't look yummy.


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Jortalus

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Well, see, you can use it to reset your attack timer.


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manoflast3

Senior Member

02-21-2012

You forgot about Blitzcrank's E.

That thing destroys towers in SECONDS combined with his W steriod.


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Dr Clueless PhD

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Renekton isn't alone there. Yorick's Q doesn't proc on towers. If memory serves, Jax's Empower doesn't either.


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Deshawn

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Quote:
TheAmberTeahouse:
A fury charged Ruthless predator would tear towers apart. Its already his highest damaging skill.


siphon+triforce does like triple what renek could pull off


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Bloodpaly

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Consistency?

IN MY LOL?

GET OUT!

Vayne can't use tumble, but Sivir can use Ricochet.