Why does the scoring system reward people who are throwing the game.

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AngryHumping

Senior Member

02-19-2012

I really don't care if the scoreboard is telling the two/three/four of you you're doing awesome capturing their bot point for 10 seconds fifty times in a game while we never manage to hold onto top even once. The scoreboard is wrong. You are not winning anything, as evidenced by the completely predictable and totally inevitable defeat that follows soon after.

I don't care about the rankings themselves, I care about the fact that the scoring mechanics are encouraging people to play stupidly and "rewarding" them when they do.

Nine times out of ten checking the profiles of people who are addicted to being useless at bot reveals a stream of top three rankings in lost matches. Clearly they think they and their completely fail strat are awesome at Dominion, and why wouldn't they, the game itself is telling them they are. *edit* Oh look one of them found this thread. Don't get so caught up in downvoting that you forget to go join your other two teammates dying uselessly at bot.


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202halffound

Senior Member

02-19-2012

I agree that the scoring system doesn't really reward for the right things. It would be better if it showed C/A/I (Captures, Assists, Interruptions) or something like that.


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Beravin

Senior Member

02-19-2012

I've got a hate for the score system. If it was that important to me, I'd be running around and capping undefended nodes, only to then run away after getting the score and repeat the process. Score means very little in this mode, and its not accurate at all. People will throw games just to try and get a good score at the end, and then blame their team.

People use score as a means of checking contribution, but its so inaccurate and misleading. Sure, I'm last place and you are first - but I'm 16/5/22 and can actually take and hold points. The one coming first? All they can do is capture an undefended point, and then get more points for dying on that same base - not helping the team at all.

Most of the time, I'm the one keeping the enemies away from the one trying to capture the point, and some times, that means a death to get us the point. My reward? Last place on the team, despite having the best combat score.

With that said, if you cant capture the point at top, the best thing to do IS to go bot and take the place thats less defended. At the very least, it takes attention off top long enough to take the Windmill. Its not that bad a tactic.


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Draydan

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Senior Member

02-19-2012

agreed. Score system provokes some bad decisions.


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v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-19-2012

The reason they're doing this is because 1) the current meta engrained in everyone's head is 4 top 1 bot, which makes top the most heavily defensed point and 2) ganking bot is the easiest way to get a third point, even easier than going to their undefended mid. Mid is closer to top, bot lets you kill a person making it a 4v5 for 20seconds and their bot is easier to defend than their mid.

I know you're upset at them referencing the score while you seemingly can't do anything top due to being outmanned but unfortunately they're right in this situation and you're actually likely more upset at the fact that you're being outmanned and unable to do much without more support. When you see your team is roaming toward bot you need to play conservatively top and either just stay within range of your mid to defend it(with out giving vision) or safely, slowly push the lane up towards top, putting pressure on the point and forcing those 3-4 to stay there.

In my experience a lot of games actually evolve into 1 tank or 1-2 defending top while the majority of the action and ganking is bot. This is just because the other team is reacting well to your team ganking bot and players are going to where the people arn't to assault and where the people are to defend. This comes after players learn Dominion's not as simple as 4top 1bot.


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AngryHumping

Senior Member

02-19-2012

All of that would theoretically be true if they actually held bot and were winning while the other team ran around cluelessly. The implications in my post are very clear that that is not what's happening, and that is not what happens the VAST majority of the time.

Because SURPRISE their spawn is 5 feet away from their bot point, of course they're going to cap it back immediately, and that whole time we still haven't managed to hold three points for anything more than a quick second.

There is a reason top is the most strategically important point, and it's not because of some arbitrary meta.

Constantly double and triple teaming bot is not how you win games. Period. It is frustrating that the individual scoring system encourages people to do so.


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v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryHumping View Post
All of that would theoretically be true if they actually held bot and were winning while the other team ran around cluelessly. The implications in my post are very clear that that is not what's happening, and that is not what happens the VAST majority of the time.

Because SURPRISE their spawn is 5 feet away from their bot point, of course they're going to cap it back immediately, and that whole time we still haven't managed to hold three points for anything more than a quick second.

There is a reason top is the most strategically important point, and it's not because of some arbitrary meta.

Constantly double and triple teaming bot is not how you win games. Period. It is frustrating that the individual scoring system encourages people to do so.
Well I think your issue is that while double and tripleteaming bot you're not holding bot. Either they're getting out muscled in an even fight of 2v2 or 3v3 or your members top arn't taking advantage of the mismatch they've placed bottom. Either is bad.

You can't let the other team allocate multiple resources bot and not punish them by taking back top. And if those 2 bot are losing an even fight your team is just being outplayed and the loss is deserved.

I agree that top is the most strategically important and it's because of it's distance from both team's spawns but there is a point where you can't just keep diving or pushing creeps into top. If they have someone that can't be reliably dived sitting there with a wave clearer that clears before you have any chance of the minions neutralizing then there is absolutely no way you're getting top from them, so why continue going there? Three points wins the game, it doesn't matter which three.


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Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R

Senior Member

02-19-2012

I wish they removed the ranking and showed CS.


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AngryHumping

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by v4v3nd3774 View Post
Well I think your issue is that while double and tripleteaming bot you're not holding bot. Either they're getting out muscled in an even fight of 2v2 or 3v3 or your members top arn't taking advantage of the mismatch they've placed bottom. Either is bad.

You can't let the other team allocate multiple resources bot and not punish them by taking back top. And if those 2 bot are losing an even fight your team is just being outplayed and the loss is deserved.

I agree that top is the most strategically important and it's because of it's distance from both team's spawns but there is a point where you can't just keep diving or pushing creeps into top. If they have someone that can't be reliably dived sitting there with a wave clearer that clears before you have any chance of the minions neutralizing then there is absolutely no way you're getting top from them, so why continue going there? Three points wins the game, it doesn't matter which three.
You're basically just constructing an unlikely scenario to justify reasons focusing on bot might make sense.

Any team that is easily rebuffing your attempts to take top is not going to then roll over when your team decides to dedicate the majority of its members to trying to steal a more easily defended point.

Focusing on bot at the expense of top doesn't and will never make strategic sense. If you don't have top your energies should be focused entirely on getting top until you do. Any attempts to split their focus by sneaking another point should A) never involve more than one person on your team and B) be strictly temporary in nature.


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v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryHumping View Post
You're basically just constructing an incredibly unlikely scenario to justify reasons focusing on bot might make sense.

Any team that is easily rebuffing your attempts to take top is not going to then roll over when you refocus your energy on bot.

Focusing on bot at the expense of top doesn't and will never make strategic sense. If you don't have top your energies should be focused entirely on getting top until you do. Any attempts to split their focus by sneaking another point should A) never involve more than one person on your team and B) be strictly temporary in nature.
Sigh. You're telling me what the scenario is, I'm not constructing it. At this point I can't tell if you were just looking for a reason to ***** or if you actually wanted help. You said your typical teammates typically 2-3 man bot *then* have trouble holding it. All I suggested was that if the other team sent enough people bot to dislodge 2-3 people on a point, top is likely accessable. If not then something is wrong, like 3 of your people being outplayed by 2. It's all about allocating resources where theirs are not to make their resources temporarily worthless.

I didn't say you should be focusing bot while you *have* top, I said rushing bot is one of the easiest ways to obtain 3 points and that controlling and putting pressure on their bot is one of the easiest ways to relieve pressure top.

"If you don't have top your energies should be focused entirely on getting top until you do." This I don't agree with at all. Like I said before, if they've allocated all of their resources top and are sitting there daring you to attempt to take it that is obviously not where you should focus. That's like running your cavarly into a line of barricaded, moated bunkers with heavy artillary rather than taking the dryland path around that's guarded by 2 foot soldiers. "B) be strictly temporary in nature." It's a shame you don't see top point this way, too, because honestly it doesn't matter which three you hold.


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