Good Idea for a Champion

No, dont like it 20 14.18%
Maybe needs some changes 37 26.24%
Yes, it is a prety good Idea 84 59.57%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

[Character Concept], Arilian, Queen of the Elements

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Havoc202

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Anyone want to Review? I havent got one in awhile


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Havoc202

Senior Member

09-21-2012

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Havoc202

Senior Member

09-21-2012

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Arixa

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Senior Member

09-21-2012

Passive: This probably scales in too many ways by level. I think if I was going to take one out I'd make it always happen on the same hit. Less complicated and easier to keep track of it by feel. Plus then it lines up better with similar things(cait/yi/ionic spark/jax) Other problem is this will push for you just by last hitting, or conversely its going to result in very fast jungling, both are potential problems. Is there a reason why the aoe doesn't follow other similar things? Sivir's W tapers 20% per target, would this work better? does it prioritize champions?

Q: I suppose it is fine numbers-wise but DoT+ damage is going to feel pretty lame to use. The DoT on this is pretty tiny(50+.15) and so is mostly going to go unnoticed making the ability feel like it hits weak even though its above average for mage Q's. 200 range splash is pretty tiny, I think that is un-accelerated Jayce Q. It's a fireball make it explode more!

W: Okay the amount of splash effects she has is starting to overload now. Passive Q and W all do splash. It's awfully damage light for a CC root. This is basically Zyra's root and her's does 200. No mention of how far the splash effect goes but at 75 damage + .5AD(I'm assuming bonus AD as that is riot's standard) I don't think people will really notice it.

E: Shield is too large. No shield in the game exceeds 300 base and this can get 500. Look at jarvan shield for an idea of how this should scale based on targets. Which brings us to the other problem with the ability. People are going to blame you if you pop this early for damage and they die. They will always assume the totem would have saved them if you hadn't popped it and a lot of the time they will be right. This is going to create tons of feel bad moments where you have to choose between saving your ally or getting your kill, and worse a lot of the time even if you played this right it is going to make your allies mad. I understand that the skill is to try to get it to almost break but not quite then pop it but that just isn't going to be how it actually plays.

R: Does too much. As a steroid this is probably better than highlander but it also has a nuke that does up to 400 damage base(it never will but it could). The scaling on the nuke is going to feel bad since it doesn't scale with every stack. If you want the stacking concept you might want to look at Syndra's ult for an idea of how to do this. Note her's is balanced around always have 3 balls and caps out around 5-6balls due to cooldown restrictions. Again not sure if you mean bonus AD or total AD, bonus is riot's current standard.

Overall: I'm not a fan of hybrid champions and this champion kind of points out why. She's all over. Her spells feel magey but then she has two auto attack steroids. I am really not sure where someone would go with a build for her but typically with hybrids one way or the other "wins" and makes everything that works with the other side feel crappy. Look at Ez and Kayle for examples of this. This character I honestly don't feel can even support an AP build as her AP ratios are not strong and her ult would do almost no damage. Other note all her abilites are aoe(Even her passive!) which is probably too many aoe effects.


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Havoc202

Senior Member

09-22-2012

Passive : Your the Second to Comment on her passive being that it is self harming I honest dont understand that. No It does not Prioritize champions. Considering it only does 100 damage plus 1/4 of the Ap, which wont be very much unless you wish to make her a bombing nuke, Which then your statement comes into effect. Even with a full Ap build it will only hit for 137.5 as it passes and full for the first is 250 which is very little Damage in late game. And it is less if people build her with her Hybird Set up. And as for this being complicated, I would like to see how that is. Every 5 Auto Attacks or Basic Attacks She sends out a chain lightning? How is that Complicated I would expect that comment to be on the Ult, Which is going to be rewritten So it can be more well understood.

Q : OKay, First, Buff this moves Aoe Range, THat I can agree, I figured it was small. As for the damage. Okay if I was to buff the damage lets say to 80/120/160/200/240 (+ .6AP). The dot damage would be based on how much the orignal amount was hit for. That includes the Ap in it. If some one was to only build 300 Ap on this move. It would come out to be 525 damage total which would be fine if the case was that someone built her full Ap. Lets have a base 725 Ap, That is do able. It comes out to 675. That is alot of damage. In diffrent setups. If I kept it in the Original Setting which i will do the same Numbers. Hybird's Damage total came out to 475 and if some one was to build her full Ap 635. Still hurts but it is not so much riding on the higher side of the damage pool.

W: As for the Aoe, I am starting to Agree, I think tacking on the Aoe Was not very bright. But when I put +1 AD, I meant that the whole amount of AD +Damage.... So 200 Ad Plus damage 350, I agree is weak and I can buff the damage to 80/110/140/170/200. Then it would hurt if built AD build Which would be ridiculous and not make it very far. I will take off the Aoe and Increase the Damage. Which If I had 200 AD would come on out to 400 damage.

E : Okay, I can understand why you say this is Op, But This Shield is mainly used in team fights. Because of the fact that the shield gets a small amount of Ap, due to the fact that it is weak in a 1v1 situation. So if I was to have 300 Ap Again, that is 100+150 Damage Absorbed, in a 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, and 1v5... The shield Grows due to ally Champions being near it. So 5 Total = 500 Damage and if and Enemy team cant churn out 500 Damage to break a sheild then they all need to learn to combo alittle better. So if I was to only 300 Ap in a team fight that is 650 damage total.... Considerably a team member of an enemy team, Like a viegar, Brand, Evelynn, and maybe even Ahri can churn that much damage in a late game situation like this. So saying that this shield is Op makes me kind of chuckle because it is a relativily weak shield. Oh and if you look at Morg's Spell Shield, if you manage to get her late game with full Ap ( Roughly 725 AP ), Her shield blocks 862.5 damage, but that is primarily spell damage not physical but that is still alot...And as for those field bad moments.. Those will be created by those who get greedy, or it expires. Popping that shield is the users choice. Not the games... So that will be made by the players choices in game.

R: Okay, I am going to just use 300 Ap and 200 Ad as examples. I havent got to test these numbers which could very well make this OP as hell, But if i was to use these this is what the projected numbers would be

Level 3
Ap : 360 Ap (Bonus Damage given 90)
Ad : 245 AD (Bonus Damage given 122.5)
Total Bonus Damage : 212.5
Damage Minimum (1 Stack only) : 252.5
Damage Maximum (10 Stacks only) : 652.5

As For it being better then Highlander it isnt. She doesnt get a Movement Speed buff which Yi gets to use to practically stay on top of you and she doesnt reach a full 80% Attack Speed buff Either. She gains attack speed to get her stacks built so it hurts to be near her and getting hit.

Lets combine all the moves with W new damage buff

475+400+450+652.5 = 1977.5 that is not adding in the additional harras ment from being hit with her Passive if that was the case Agian using 300 Ap 2152.5 Total damage ( with one hit of her passive). So She hits hard with her ult but that is to make up on some of her lessing amount of the damage. From her Q, W, and E..

Overall, Everyone has there Opinion, Your right as her role as support can easily be eliminated. I looked at the numbers and your right she wouldnt be a very good support. But Your right she can Jungle. Almost to well. If I seemed Defensive I apologize. I tend to get way over zeleous and I apologize for that. Any way Thank you for the critism and I will definantly fix the Q and W!


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Arixa

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Senior Member

09-22-2012

Her passive will cost her about 10-15 cs every game by bouncing randomly to a mob she isn't close enough to hit and the minions then kill. Also pushing lanes(and yes 100 damage WILL push a lane) is also bad for a large portion of the game. Having this for a passive basically precludes her from being able to top lane because it is such a liability to have uncontrolled aoe damage. That is the only way it hinders her. Oh the complication, it scales 3 different things every level, which attack it procs on, damage, and number of bounces. No other ability scales all 3 of these things, all abilities in the game that count set numbers of hits stay static(jax ult, tf stacked deck, yi passive, ionic spark) only caitlyn's is even slightly complicated by the brush doubling interaction and it doesn't bounce or scale the damage value. It's just generally a good policy to follow established patterns because when you don't it will confuse people.

You can't buff the Q. The Nuke+DoT is already above average for a mage Q damage wise. So you get a move that is actually strong but feels weak. This is generally not considered a good design. I'm not even talking numbers. Any combination of DoT + Nuke is not going to feel good, that is really just what it comes down. There is no way to balance it to feel satisfying on hit and make the dot meaningful without overpowering the ability. People really really really need to stop trying to do this design(you are not the first nor will you be the last).

Most shields have pretty weak ap ratios. Usually .7 or less if memory serves me right and they are single target(meaning you have to pick who to shield it doesn't just always shield damage for you), and they have sub 300 base values. There really isn't even counter play to this as unlike other shields you can't just target someone else and let it wear off cause it shields everyone. Lets not even get started on a hybrid carry who also brings support(Kayle has been a balance nightmare for years).

Lets compare this ability to the two shielding supports Lulu and Janna. Supports probably get 100 ap by the end of the game. Janna has a 240 base shield and a .9 ap ratio(unusually high for a shield). So 330 shield that gives the carry 50 AD, assuming 5 attacks with shield up this is worth about 300 damage. Lulu's shield is 240 + .6 so its even smaller and is generally worth less damage for the carry since pix doesn't scale with crit. Your shield is 500 + .5, we'll just assume zero ap because honestly the ap ratios on this character lead me to think you build her pure ad/bruiser, so 500, 1/3 stronger than the average late game support shield and it explodes for 300 damage(we'll say it hits 2 people) so 600 damage or about twice what the support shield is worth. Don't compare this to black shield because black shield is literally the only thing morg has that makes her viable, it is the lynchpin to her whole kit and it isn't similar, morg shield does no damage and only effects spell damage.

R: Okay lets run some comparison with highlander. We'll assume 6 stacks no items for the damage this does, so 240 + 22.5(half the bonus AD it gives) + 15(a quarter its bonus ap) = 277.5. Now lets do the numbers on the bonuses 45 AD and 70% attack speed is un arguably better than 80% attack speed(45 ad is worth 1650 gold, 10% attack speed is worth around 300-350), I imagine we can agree on that. Yi gets move speed to get to melee range, but this character has a root for that and instead gets 277.5 damage and 60 ap free to compensate. Hard to say which is more valuable there but I'm willing to say its probably a wash even though I'd take the 280 damage personally. So the first part is way better than highlander, the second part is about equal to highlander. This is therefore better than highlander. I would accept that highlander offers the reset potential for just flat out acing a team but it is a pretty situational thing that is hard to judge the value of but in terms of just being a steroid for a melee character this wins easily.

Anyway if I were going somewhere with this character I'd first figure out exactly what she is supposed to be doing. There is actually nothing wrong with her being an aoe damage threat and a fast jungler, or being a top lane bruiser, I can't really see support, there's the workings of a mage in here with better numbers. I mean there's a lot of places she can go. Right now all those directions are colliding with each other which is leaving you with a character that can't be balanced. I look at this and just say that in order to make this character play fair she has to feel like **** to play and that just isn't a good place to be. All the abilities are fine ideas(minus the ally/stack scaling on her shield/ult those are wonky), you just need to pick the ones you think are the best and shape her with them.

One last tiny thing, the shield should probably be her W. The standard for modern damage classes is to put their mitigation/utility ability on W.

I appreciate someone willing to argue. Defensive-ness is fine. I admit when I review a champion I am looking for things done wrong. There are plenty of people on these forums that will give you thumbs up, there are not so many people willing to dig into a design and try to break it. Sadly the latter is a lot more useful for improvement.


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legionlord75

Junior Member

09-22-2012

I think you should buff the ult a little more by upping the ap scaling because for this champ it looks like a great ap champ and adding a small ad scaling ad scaling on totemic explosion for resistance not damage... as well you mispelled valoran in the lore


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Havoc202

Senior Member

09-25-2012

I figured i mispelled lol. I will fix it!


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Havoc202

Senior Member

09-28-2012

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Havoc202

Senior Member

12-30-2012

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