Ahri or Morgana

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Yaladilae

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02-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DxG WagoNMaster View Post
I only used morgana because someone i know said that Morgana was more useful on dominion than Ahri was and i disagreed with him.The reasons listed are the same reasons i told him and he still thinks morgana is a better pick lol. That's why i posted this to get opinions.
Well, funny thing is, Morgana can counter Ahri, Ahri cannot

Why? Snare...

But who is better is not a very invalid point now... Since it also takes player skill into account
Perhaps the best way to put it is, they fulfil different role.

Can Ahri push as well as Morg at bot lane? Yes, But can Ahri consistently lane this long without recal now (mana issue)? No
And believe me, I played Ahri more then a lot of people around here.


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larkhill

Senior Member

02-16-2012

this is comparing an offensive-minded champ with a defensive one. morgana is a lot like karthus where u basically turtle bot until u get high ap, then switch to top lane and hold the point forever.

ahri does very well bot by being aggressive. her combo does a lot of dmg. fox fire + ult does a lot of dmg and u can dance around people, especially melee.


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Stez007

Senior Member

02-16-2012

They're two different champions with very different roles.

Morgana is an extremely safe bot lane champion and one of the better support top lane champions.

At bot lane, Morgana can safely push harder than most champions, and counter enemy pushes without much difficulty. After level 6 she is also one of the most difficult champions to tower dive and is mostly immune to 2-man ganks. Additionally, she hard-counters many bot lane champions thanks to her incredible sustain and ability to keep an opponent in lane indefinitely. Even when forced to play passively, Morgana is extremely difficult to force out of lane and will rarely succumb to minion pushes.


Top lane, Morgana's support is invaluable. A three second snare in Dominion is incredibly deadly and almost guarantees a kill. Her pool also syngergizes extremely well with other AP champions thanks to its MR shred, and her shield is terrifying when combined with an easily-CCed champion like Sion or Tryndamere. Moreover, her ability to cause chaos in teamfights with her ultimate makes her a primary target, providing a great distraction (especially when she gets Hourglass) that will usually lead to several kills.

She is a champion to pick when your team already has considerable sustained damage and burst but lacks utility, or when facing a strong AP bot lane (like, for example, Ahri) or one with little sustain.


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xPainx

Senior Member

02-16-2012

Morgana Counters Ahri bottom lane on dominion? i totally disagree. i've dominated every morg so far on my ahri. the ONLY thing is her bind which i juke anyways and then i harass her.


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Mister Omega

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02-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekrogen View Post
This is precisely why Morgana isn't optimal for Dominion. I usually say that everyone is viable in Dominion, but Morgana's strength comes from passively farming, which isn't really what Dominion is all about. Her ultimate is a redeeming feature, but it honestly isn't enough to say she's better than Ahri.
While I'm reluctant to directly contradict the opinion of a demonstrably skilled player, I'd like your opinion on the following points. Since it's relevant, I'd like to point out that me and my bro now usually hover in the 1700-1800 range:

Morgana's black shield, snare, and ultimate make her extremely difficult to gank bottom. This, combined with her ability to more or less launch off a rather long-range spell and not need to stick around the lane much more than that makes her one of the safest bottom laners that never really has to worry about ganks. This becomes doubly true once you get your AP and mr/armor built up, which she does easily with how safely and effectively she farms..

Morgana does very well against the toughest of bottom laners, such as Yorick and Heimerdinger, which largely ties into how safely she can lane.

Morgana's moves do wonders to make certain champions much more dangerous, such as Tryndamere and Galio. Durand+tormented soil = a lot of damage with MR stripped off. Trynd + anti-CC shield + cleanse = chop chop chop, baby. I was actually able to do well with a Nunu once because I could stick a shield on him so that he didn't eat every CC on the team whenever he tried to ult.

Last, but certainly not least, if you know how to shoot your bind only when you can afford to potentially miss it, or when you're guaranteed to hit, her kiting power is indomitable.


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v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-16-2012

Even if you hit your binding and soil she just stands around and does nothing for 12seconds. Granted a 2sec snare when you have people that can follow up on it well like Panth can mean certain death for someone but her autoattacking for 12seconds doesn't exactly bring much to the table. Her R is decent but considering the smaller fights in dominion and the fact that it's mostly bruisers and you're trying to walk into those bruisers makes her R much less impactful. Overall Ahri is a much bigger threat and much more impactful, even after the minor nerfs.

Regarding how much of an impact I feel each of them makes(consider this is just my opinion, yours may differ, but then again you're asking for our opinions) I would rather have these champions on my team compared to Morg(in roughly this order): Ahri, Karthus, Brand, Nunu, Kayle, Teemo, Amumu, Mundo, Katarina, Nidalee, Morgana. Note the amount of underplayed and borderline sub-optimal champions lower on the list, but still above Morgana. Also note the few more often played champions near the top of the list, but still under Ahri. Just my two cents.


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Mister Omega

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02-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by v4v3nd3774 View Post
Even if you hit your binding and soil she just stands around and does nothing for 12seconds. Granted a 2sec snare when you have people that can follow up on it well like Panth can mean certain death for someone but her autoattacking for 12seconds doesn't exactly bring much to the table.
What you seem to be viewing as a weakness can also be a great strength. Saying that a character is "useless" inbetween their cooldowns can be misleading when you can easily say it's a STRENGTH to be able to exert almost all of your combat effectiveness in a single spamming moment and then take 8-12 seconds to freely do anything else. For example, if if my ult isn't up, and I'm involved in a team turret assault situation, one of my favorite things to do is quickly spam all of my spells and then focus on capping while they're on cooldown, upon which I'm both helping my team cap AND neutralizing a turret's DPS. Not so "useless" in such an instance, is she? It's also worth noting that being "useless" inbetween cooldowns is a feature of almost every ability-focused character.

Quote:
Her R is decent but considering the smaller fights in dominion and the fact that it's mostly bruisers and you're trying to walk into those bruisers makes her R much less impactful. Overall Ahri is a much bigger threat and much more impactful, even after the minor nerfs.
I'm not gonna try to argue whether or not Ahri is more effective, she may very well be she's a scary champ, but you're slightly wrong about these parts regarding Morg, imo. The smaller fights on Dominion make it much more feasible for her to jump into the middle of fights without being instantly melted for trying. Once you've got a deathcap and a tanky AP item (Zhonya's works really well here), Morg can fairly reliably get into the mix of things esp if a bunch of tanky dps try to jump on top of you and you can pop your hourglass (of course that same hourglass can be used to stuff up YOUR ult). Against those very bruisers she's able to do an AoE slow then stun, which the DPS on YOUR team can then capitalize upon. I don't think she's as vulnerable to the bruisers constantly running around Dom as you think.

It could be that I just handle Morgana really well, since people that are not used to seeing her fall prey to my expertise, but I seem to kick a **** ton of ass with her, and appear to have a trick for pretty much anything the enemy tries to use against me.


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Annaed

Senior Member

02-16-2012

Well, I don't play morgana... but I have played ahri consistently ever since her release... I loved her then and love her now, even with the recent nerf (although it did suck). Have played tons of games with her (wish there was a way to check how many) and hit 1800 elo again today with her. I should add that I do play quite a bit of premades so that might be the difference. She is most certainly my favorite character.

Here's my match history for today..


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

02-16-2012

Morgana's strength in SR comes from two things; very strong sustain for safe laning, and a great teamfight ulti.

Neither is a big advantage for Dom. The laning sustain is irrelevant, because all good bot laners have high sustain. Her ulti isn't as amazing, because teamfights are smaller and much more frequent.

Ahri isn't quite as strong in the early game for laning; but she's strong enough to stalemate against most enemies. Mid to late game, she makes a great caster-assassin and is much scarier than Morgana.

I mean, I'd take a great Morgana over a mediocre Ahri any day. But I'd prefer to take a great Ahri over a great Morgana in most matches. She's not terrible, but she's not outstanding either.


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Mister Omega

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02-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
Morgana's strength in SR comes from two things; very strong sustain for safe laning, and a great teamfight ulti.
Here's MY list of strengths for Morgana:

Ability to safely push bottom against the most vicious of laners and do fine.
Ability to safely push bottom without dying every time a gank happens. Send 2 people after Yorick or especially Heimer and they're toast.
Ability to push out of lane anyone that's NOT the most vicious of laners.
Anti-CC shield that can REALLY augment the ability of certain champions.
Ability to ditch bottom and jump into the fray with her strong AoE ult and MR debuff, and particular potency when guarding a turret.
Capacity to build both strong AP and strong resistances to become surprisingly tough.

Quote:
The laning sustain is irrelevant, because all good bot laners have high sustain.
This logic is so bad I don't know where to begin. The good sustain is QUITE relevant because it means she can KEEP UP with said bot laners. WITHOUT said sustain she'd be a significantly weaker bottom laner, but alas she can easily begin to tank minion waves and stay at 100% as soon as she builds a little damage. At worst, most opponents can only hope to stalemate against her in lane unless they can attempt to kill her on her own turret (Which is a fantastic way to get ulted and die).

Quote:
Her ulti isn't as amazing, because teamfights are smaller and much more frequent.
While I'll admit that the CD on her ult leaves a bit to be desired, when it's ready she can RAPE a 3v3 fight, because of the comparative ease with which Morgana can obtain a Rabadon's and a tanky AP item like Zhonyas or Abyssal Scepter. With said items, her ability to jump into the fray and not get instantly melted down makes said ult FAR more reliable and easier to use. I mained Morg in SR before I started playing Dom and one of the biggest problems you'd end up encountering with her was having the right moment to actually get in and ult more than a couple of front liners, because one mistake meant you were toast unless you were REALLY having a good game and had an even remotely comparable item loadout than what you'd typically have in Dom.