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How many games do you expect to play before you reach your true Elo?

< 10 Games 180 1.63%
11-40 Games 819 7.4%
41-80 Games 1162 10.5%
81-120 Games 1738 15.71%
121-160 Games 665 6.01%
161-200 Games 930 8.41%
200-399 Games 1703 15.39%
400-599 Games 1089 9.84%
600-799 Games 457 4.13%
800-999 Games 170 1.54%
1000+ Games 2143 19.37%
Voters 11063 .

Help Riot improve matchmaking! Looking for examples of bad matchmaking

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Hellcake

Junior Member

02-17-2012

Perfect example of LoL matchmaking:
I get stuck with 2 lvl 12's and 2 lvl 15's that ALL decide to take AP carries, then ALL decide to feed at least 0-5, then ALL decide to report me for feeding with 6-1 as my score 20 minutes in after they ALL /ff

The other team is 4 lvl 30's and a lvl 28 with full rune pages who are fun, kind, and I chat with in all chat after ignoring my team at 15 min.

Seriously RIOT? Do you actually HAVE a matchmaking system at all? Is it random?


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kidco

Senior Member

02-17-2012

Quote:
Hellcake:
Perfect example of LoL matchmaking:
I get stuck with 2 lvl 12's and 2 lvl 15's that ALL decide to take AP carries, then ALL decide to feed at least 0-5, then ALL decide to report me for feeding with 6-1 as my score 20 minutes in after they ALL /ff

The other team is 4 lvl 30's and a lvl 28 with full rune pages who are fun, kind, and I chat with in all chat after ignoring my team at 15 min.

Seriously RIOT? Do you actually HAVE a matchmaking system at all? Is it random?


they realize there is a big problem with solo que and they are trying their best to fix it so they want to get an idea of how many games most ppl think they need to play before they reach their true elo when win or lose streaks completely wreck the idea.

Lets say I have 500 ranked games and have 1600 elo. Then I get really unlucky and lose pretty much 15 in a row and drop 200 elo back down to 1400. Was my true elo 1600 after 500 ranked games or 1400 after 515? This happens frequently to many people, just good or bad luck streaks. But if riot really has a lot of smart people like they claim they do then I'm sure the problems will be resolved.

Solo que is based too much on luck and this needs to be changed.


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Belkarama

Senior Member

02-17-2012

NeoIllusions
Eliteviet
Kenikth
ImmenseSkill
EHomda

Average ELO: 2047

VS
Feather Tea
Neryth
SaveMe
PonyPrancer
Belkarama

Average ELO:1789

Only lost 2 elo for the game, but it was still a total stomp.


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Prototypo

Senior Member

02-17-2012

One issue is most mid tier-ed elo players (1400-1600) can drop significantly in ELO if they are playing a champion they aren't very comfortable with.


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Thundarianjunk

Senior Member

02-17-2012

Can we get an option for level 30 summoners to only que into other level 30's?

Just had a game where someone locked in TF, didn't say anything. I pick an AD carry for bot. We get into the game, TF starts yelling at me that he's going bot and is AD tf and I should have known that because he has the HEAL summoner spell. This screws over our entire teamcomp and we end up with no ap on our team. Turns out he's level 27 with barely any games played, and he was playing AD tf with ap runes.

With over 1000 wins under my belt and a good win / loss ratio I expect to be paired up with people who have at least a moderate understanding of how the game works...


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TheBirdOfPrey

Senior Member

02-17-2012

just had a game where i get into champ select and everybody calls all their roles. Our first pick says i should be able to pick who i want cus i'm first pick. even though she didn't get her preferred role and ended up support. So that was fine. Then our ranged ad Player picks MF. Sona says aww i'm not supporting this guy(jokingly) MF freaks out and says "fck you sion" i'm going mid and so now we have sona solo bot and sion MF double mid. jungle maokai and me(katarina) top lane. So overall i do well top lane against a twitch. Going 6-2 in lane. Even running mid twice to pick up 2 kills on their fizz. But by this point my team is behind 6-17. Yes, i have the only kills on my team, all 6 of them, Maokai is 0-4. Sona is 0-6 MF is 0-2 and sion 0-5. So this game is going GREAT SO FAR.
Maokai basically refuses to listen to anyone after about 20 minutes so no matter how many retreat pings he keeps going forward and dieing(he spoke english prefectly fine)
Sona is pissed off and eventually sells all her items and intentionally feeds going 1-11 by the end of the game
MF steals all of sions farm anf actually cs's fairly well ahving 250+ farm she is the only other person I am semi confident can deal damage. But she dives head first into 1v5 with them near baron (from our CV, which was no more then 2 seconds earlier but she was BLIND to map awareness) gets killed after we say no, b, itsn ot safe,. Then blames me(kat) saying its my fault we are losing cus my ult does no damage (LOOOL) the enemy team only had 2 reliable CC's to stop me from ulting and both were ults on long CD's.
Sion is AFK at base past about 35 minutes spamming surrenders since 20. always going 3 yes to 2 no. I voted No on all of these since i was positive all game
So in a last ditch effort with most of my team dead and our base pushed i decide to try to kill their mundo who had 6K HP. he and minions are the only things attacking our nexus. I bring him to aobut 500HP and the enemy team shows up and kills me. MF of course says i didnt do any damage. (i was watching the numbers. each dagger did 174. 10 knives is 1740 damage. Q'd him 3 times for about 300 each. E for 500 twice. and ignite and gunblade active took him down another 400 or so. I used the healing reductions to my benefit when he ulted so the health cost also did more damage then he gained. But of course Mundo says it did no damage. MF too. and the gmae ends with them all blaming me when i am THE ONLY PERSON positive on my team. and i kept up in gold with the enemy team. only aobut 1k behind. NO CHANCE OF WINNING


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Rumplefugly

Member

02-17-2012

Quote:
Lyte:
I hesitate to let people choose their 'desired' win%s. Explaining a system like that to a player is complicated and we risk overwhelming players with math when it does not necessarily add value to their experience.

Allowing people to flag their role, or the many posts suggesting 'group finders' are neat ideas; but very difficult to implement. This is not to say it is impossible, but it is an idea that we must tread carefully with and really consider the advantages and added value it provides our players.

One, we have to be careful we do not recommend or push metas or 'suggested team compositions' on our players.

Two, we have to be weary of some roles or lanes being less popular, and increasing queue lengths into unsatisfactory levels.

Three, we do not want to profile a champ as a 'jungler' or 'mage' necessarily. One of the great things about League is that you can build champs many different ways. Some players build AP Master Yi and that works. Some players build AD Twisted Fate, and some build AP Twisted Fate. We never want to stifle creativity. If we label the vast majority of champs as 'viable' for multiple roles... then I am not sure we are actually helping the situation all that much.

There are possible solutions to each and every issue; but, tackling all the problems elegantly is not easy!


Couldn't you just add more chatrooms to do just this? I'm surprised more people aren't in there forming pre-mades as a "jungler" or a "mage" or any other role they want more regularly. It accomplishes the exact same goal as programming the ability to random queue as a pre-defined role: Consistently forming teams for matches while also securing a desired role in your team comp.


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Lyte

Lead Social Systems Designer

Follow RiotLyte on Twitter

02-17-2012

Quote:
Belkarama:
NeoIllusions
Eliteviet
Kenikth
ImmenseSkill
EHomda

Average ELO: 2047

VS
Feather Tea
Neryth
SaveMe
PonyPrancer
Belkarama

Average ELO:1789

Only lost 2 elo for the game, but it was still a total stomp.


I think this particular scenario is going to be difficult to fix. Some players/teams are going to be so high in Elo, that there simply isn't a population to match them with. After a certain period of time, there is no choice but to match them with the closest possible team--in this case, a team an average of ~200 Elo lower.

The absolute best players in the game will always be in lopsided games dominating someone. I'd take it as a challenge and beat them as the underdogs next time I'll look into these cases though. Potentially we could revise the potential rewards/losses when matchmaking is desperate to match a top team.


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9Point

Senior Member

02-17-2012

Quote:
Lyte:
I agree with you that players who intentionally rage on someone with the goal of making them quit will eventually land in the Tribunal and be punished; however, we have now created a system where players know it is possible to escape from Elo loss if someone leaves. What does this do to player behaviors?

1) The toxic players will rage and force someone to quit. They will be banned by the Tribunal; however, maybe 1-3+ players quit because of their horrible experience hearing "uninstall the game, you suck, never play again." We lost 1-3+ good people, and still had to ban the 1 toxic player.

2) Players who are moderately toxic now know they have a way to force Elo loss on someone else. Before this feature, these players would have probably gotten frustrated but just played another game or taken a break. Now, they might decide to instead rage on who they believe is the person responsible for the loss. Now, we have made a toxic player more toxic than before, and lost still 1-3+ good people.

Even if it is just 1 game, even if the toxic player is banned, I lose sleep at night thinking about the 1-3+ good players who had a miserable, miserable experience.

This is not to say it is a terrible idea; but there has got to be better solutions to consider first.


I dont understand why a ELO dump is bad.

Even after reading your example. This STILL happens. There are toxic players who ruin games for 1-3+ players. ELO dump or not. This happens. You can not be nieve to think that in a team PvP game there wont be people who blame.

If anything, you said yourself that you ALREADY have a system implemented to solve the toxic player issue.

Team rages at player.
Player AFKs from frustation
Gets Reported
Goes to tribunal
Gets pardoned (Most likely in your scenario)
*Could be voted for punish, where it STILL comes before Riot staff who sees he was being bullied.
Bullies are punished
???
Profit

If anything this would ease games where we STILL have Disconnects in champion select that lead to a game.


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IS1dcd9a4f2ff9a3

Senior Member

02-17-2012

Quote:
Lyte:
I'm very curious about this. For people with multiple accounts that have played Ranked matches, please send me your Summoner Names and your current Elos on the accounts so I can see if the accounts landed at very different Elo ranges after placement matches.

You have that data already.
Just look up summoners who have ~10 ranked games in both first and second season. On my main account I have 1430 and 1130 Elo in S1 and S2 respectively with ~15 games played in each.