Morello what is your take on soraka bot lane.

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Azragal

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Then why is it the heal characters dominate instead of tank/AD kill lanes?
Because you already nerfed those champions ratios/range to the ground.

Mid Malphite Q range, of course its old range was a pain, now it can be countered by the new range mages, but one thing I loved from midphite was that he punished selfish players, hey you want to FP anivia? Then I will use malphite to make your life a living hell, that was the whole point about midphite, he was a counter, but then you went too far and gave him Viktor range.

Garen/Sion/Gragas/Renekton/Xin ratios/survivability, remember when Garen/Taric, Garen/Sion, Singed/Garen and many other kill lanes were viable? Thatīs because their Ratio was worth the AD runes that day, now few of them has these kinda ratios and arpen still wins. Kill lanes that still work at some extent are J4/Leona or J4/Xin, but only when you have ignite AND the players are skilled, then again, these kill lanes involve your "real tank" playing as support or 2 champions that literally put you in " I gotta play 5x better than my enemy and get fed AT LEAST 5 kills or I will fall late game " situation, they scale bad, and even though you get fed you are still meh at late.

Lets not forget how you killed versatility too, please tell me when was the last time you saw an AD gragas or Tank gragas? AP nidalee? AP alistair? I still cant get the fact you butchered his ap ratios but never changed the trample passive, and I will not get on the "somewhat viable" ones because of the fear you installed at me of getting these heroes nerfed. These examples I gave you were downright BUTCHERED, not nerfed, a nerf means they would still be somewhat viable. And dont try to pull an IEM on me, the 1% =/= the majority.

Then you come and create a thread " LETS KILL THE META ", when it was you that in a indirect way estabilished it in the first place.

And now you will butcher supports, but they will still be viable, because instant cast spells will always be strong, there is no counter reaction, one time someone suggested that giving heal over time would solve the thing, but nnoooooo, lets give more CDR, more MANA costs and players would still counter it with runes/masteries.

Fix the mfing runes and champion ratios if you want other metas to be viable, because you have been trying the same thing 6 patches and it is still not working.


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Mylasty

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Soraka Rework:

Starcall:
-Range reduced by 75.
-AP Ratio Increased by .1

Starcalls range was large, and with this AP scaling boost it would have been game breakingly broken. So we had to reduce it. It does more damage though remember.

Astral Blessing:
~Reworked~
-Astral Blessing now grants the target 50 armor *AND* 20 MR for two seconds. The healing component has been removed. Cooldown increased from 20 seconds to 28/26/24/22/20.

We feel that Astral Blessing was providing too much health and sustain for no cost. But now we feel that this ability will separate the good players from the great players by having to time it better ala the longer cooldown, and also using the new buffed versions MR buff strategically.

Infuse
~Rework!~
--Infuse was providing too much sustain. It no longer restores mana, but the silence duration was increased by .5 seconds at rank one; later ranks remain the same, however.
--The AP Ratio was also increased by .05

Infuse was supporting a passive gamestyle that we do not want. However, since the duration of the silence is longer at Rank 1, we feel this is more of a utility spell now and Sorakas will max this last. And because the AP Ratio was increased, we hope Sorakas will go into a more offensive playstyle.

Wish
~Rework~
--The cooldown of this ability was too short; it was available for pretty much every team fight. We want to separate the good Sorakas from the great by having them time it better. The CD has been increased to 130/120/110. The base heal was also increased by 5 per rank.

While the cooldown nerf does hurt, the heal was increased by 15 at max rank. We feel this compensates for the increased CD. I mean, it's still a global ultimate! However, assists are no longer granted if the player healed is longer than 1000 units away.


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High Rune

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Senior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by heyimgay View Post
Soraka Rework:

Starcall:
-Range reduced by 75.
-AP Ratio Increased by .1

Starcalls range was large, and with this AP scaling boost it would have been game breakingly broken. So we had to reduce it. It does more damage though remember.

Astral Blessing:
~Reworked~
-Astral Blessing now grants the target 50 armor *AND* 20 MR for two seconds. The healing component has been removed. Cooldown increased from 20 seconds to 28/26/24/22/20.

We feel that Astral Blessing was providing too much health and sustain for no cost. But now we feel that this ability will separate the good players from the great players by having to time it better ala the longer cooldown, and also using the new buffed versions MR buff strategically.

Infuse
~Rework!~
--Infuse was providing too much sustain. It no longer restores mana, but the silence duration was increased by .5 seconds at rank one; later ranks remain the same, however.
--The AP Ratio was also increased by .05

Infuse was supporting a passive gamestyle that we do not want. However, since the duration of the silence is longer at Rank 1, we feel this is more of a utility spell now and Sorakas will max this last. And because the AP Ratio was increased, we hope Sorakas will go into a more offensive playstyle.

Wish
~Rework~
--The cooldown of this ability was too short; it was available for pretty much every team fight. We want to separate the good Sorakas from the great by having them time it better. The CD has been increased to 130/120/110. The base heal was also increased by 5 per rank.

While the cooldown nerf does hurt, the heal was increased by 15 at max rank. We feel this compensates for the increased CD. I mean, it's still a global ultimate! However, assists are no longer granted if the player healed is longer than 1000 units away.
way to make soraka eve tier


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Yiyas

Junior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyko View Post
way to make soraka eve tier
That's the joke.

No really it is; "we want to separate the good x from the great x" is a classic Morello line for A) an unreasonable, yet liveable, nerf or B) a non required, yet kinda nice, buff. With the over the top nerfs and dissimilar format to a Riot rework post it should lead you to conclude that this post, is indeed, ironic.


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Valentiin

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vycoss View Post
So- ima prefix everything i say by stating, I would never disagree with any balance changes you make. I understand that balancing in a game like this is a near impossible task. Just too many variables. What is op to a 1200 elo player maybe underpowered to a 2k elo player. Skill caps and synergies with other heros is just too much to account for. Their will never be balance for all of the playerbase, and i know you guys do you're best.

That being said, i play ad bot quite a bit in ranked solo que. Im fairly high elo, not godly high, but higher than most will ever play in. I hate, when my lane picks a support that doesnt heal. I cant stand it. I know ive lost that lane. If im playing cait, and i have a janna, ive lost that lane. Janna may teamfight better than, soraka or someone else, but it may not matter cause of how the lane will go. Of course, soraka being the worst in lane, with sona being not that far behind. Also when i play cait, i wonder..if i can really lane without soraka sometimes. Mostly cause of her mass mana issues. You guys minor nerfed cait awhile back, and i was ok with that, but i was wondering if their are any qol mana changes come to her. feels like i lay a trap and press q once and i get to sit oom for 10 minutes, or be forced to run mana regen runes and lose my lane cause i dont put out enough dmg.

Also, i personally believe trist could use some work. Shes kinda outdated, and her mid game scaling seems pretty low end for most ad range. If you're going to nerf all the supports, might wanna consider the effects it might have on some of the ad bots who are also going to get hurt, and because even more obscure because the big-time ad carries will be more necessary in lane to win.
If you pick Cait, you should never lose your lane. Ever.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

02-09-2012

supports in this game are horrible, supports = insta lose for me, 2 ap burster like leblanc+annie is far better, it is so moronic people keep playing support, once support will get nerfed to a level, nobody will play them again, even if they double, 3x or 5x their heal because everyone will realize support suck A LOT for OBVIOUS and mathematical (+practical) reason. (it's easier to outheal and Y damage is more important than Y heal because you can focus and make people die faster etc etc).

Support need a VERY big buff imo.


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Kayla8590

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Senior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by heyimgay View Post
Soraka Rework:

Starcall:
-Range reduced by 75.
-AP Ratio Increased by .1

Starcalls range was large, and with this AP scaling boost it would have been game breakingly broken. So we had to reduce it. It does more damage though remember.

Astral Blessing:
~Reworked~
-Astral Blessing now grants the target 50 armor *AND* 20 MR for two seconds. The healing component has been removed. Cooldown increased from 20 seconds to 28/26/24/22/20.

We feel that Astral Blessing was providing too much health and sustain for no cost. But now we feel that this ability will separate the good players from the great players by having to time it better ala the longer cooldown, and also using the new buffed versions MR buff strategically.

Infuse
~Rework!~
--Infuse was providing too much sustain. It no longer restores mana, but the silence duration was increased by .5 seconds at rank one; later ranks remain the same, however.
--The AP Ratio was also increased by .05

Infuse was supporting a passive gamestyle that we do not want. However, since the duration of the silence is longer at Rank 1, we feel this is more of a utility spell now and Sorakas will max this last. And because the AP Ratio was increased, we hope Sorakas will go into a more offensive playstyle.

Wish
~Rework~
--The cooldown of this ability was too short; it was available for pretty much every team fight. We want to separate the good Sorakas from the great by having them time it better. The CD has been increased to 130/120/110. The base heal was also increased by 5 per rank.

While the cooldown nerf does hurt, the heal was increased by 15 at max rank. We feel this compensates for the increased CD. I mean, it's still a global ultimate! However, assists are no longer granted if the player healed is longer than 1000 units away.

Wtf is this. Is this what YOU want or are you quoting?


Edit: why the down vote, I didn't say anything negative. I asked a simple question.


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Weajiin

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Here is an idea. Drop the 16 mr passive, make it a mana regen aura. Shift infuse to solely silence. Make Ancestral Blessing give half as much armor but the same amount of magic resist. Increase the ap ratio on Wish. Add more time to Starcalls cooldown. About 4 seconds. Increase the magic resist debuff. And leave her like that?


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Yiyas

Junior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostradamusss View Post
supports in this game are horrible, supports = insta lose for me, 2 ap burster like leblanc+annie is far better, it is so moronic people keep playing support, once support will get nerfed to a level, nobody will play them again, even if they double, 3x or 5x their heal because everyone will realize support suck A LOT for OBVIOUS and mathematical (+practical) reason. (it's easier to outheal and Y damage is more important than Y heal because you can focus and make people die faster etc etc).

Support need a VERY big buff imo.
While I don't agree that supports = instalose right now. I do agree that LeBlanc is becoming a viable bot laner due to her early game decimation. That silence component on Q just destroys healing lanes.

I also don't see why traditional support is such a bad thing in that you play a safe, not passive, game. People say they don't like support or find it boring but who is forcing them to play support. As someone who personally enjoys playing support I'm definitely feeling the butt end of these "reworks", aka nerfs.


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Masterwcer

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Member

02-09-2012

Considering the chat we had about what needed to be changed about supports, in addition to what I have heard from other players, I tried to build a champ that solves these issues:



(Ignore names of abilities)

Passive -- Sight -- Whenever you get a kill or assist on an enemy champion, a ward spawns at the place of their death, and lasts for 30/60/90 seconds.

Q -- Heal -- Restores 20/35/50/65/80 Health to target champion (+.2 per AP) Passive - each time [this champ] kills an enemy unit, the health restoration increases permanently by 1/1.5/2/2.5/3. Bonuses cap at 300. [50/60/70/80/90 Mana] [15 second CD]

W -- Negate -- Passive Aura - Each time [this champ] kills an enemy unit, the armor and MR of nearby allies increases by 5/6/7/8/9 for 5 seconds. Can stack up to 10 times, but new stacks do not reset the timer on previous stacks. Active - [This champ] sends out a pulsating wave that deals 40/80/120/160/200 damage to surrounding minions. [60 Mana] [17/16/15/14/13 second CD]

E -- Reduce Threat -- Target ally becomes untargetable by minions and turrets for 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds [100 Mana] [20 second CD]

R -- Siphon -- [This champ] channels for 3 seconds, slowing nearby enemy champions by 30%, and reducing their armor and MR by 15/25/35 per second (persists for 2 seconds after the channel ends). In addition, [this champ] gains 50% of the armor/MR drained added to their own armor/MR. [200 Mana] [150 second CD]



This type of support would:

A) Need to farm to be effective, removing the 0CS support idea if this champs was to be implemented and used.

B) Doesn't require AP to be effective, so people will not fall into the trap of building AP on supports.

C) Has no hard CC.

D) Still has some sustain ability, but cannot lock down a lane.

E) My numbers may be off of course, this is just a concept, so I doubt it would be balanced as written atm.