Lets talk strategy - Ninja capping

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CyrisAeon

Member

02-07-2012

Ninja-capping is a 100% viable strategy. Anyone who says otherwise is either:

1- The kind of person who complains about backdooring
2- Someone who has never seen good ninja-capping
3- Someone who has lost to ninja-capping

My favorite time for a ninja-cap is:
Enemy team has windmill and a full defense force there. Your team is preparing to siege, but is not committing yet. The ninja-capper (a hero with movepseed/escape) rushes across map to mid and starts to cap, carefully watching the map for blips to head his way. As long as the rest of the team plays safe, the enemy will have a choice: send 1 to mid, or send 2...

If they send 1, the ninja-capper fades into the woods quick, then either goes back to ninja-cap again, ganks bot, meets back up top for a siege, or decides he can take the defender in a 1v1.
If they send 2, the team up top needs to commit to windmill while the ninja-capper kites.


Basically, ninja-capping works like a charm for carving the enemy team up. 252EC hit the nail on the head, it's a disruption technique. They key is teamwork though. If your 3 top get impatient or too aggressive and die against the 4 top, they failed, not the ninja-capper. If the ninja-capper stays too long and gets killed, that's his fault. If 2 go mid and the ninja kites around for a while and eventually dies, it's on the top players to take advantage of the 3v2 top and cap.


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Rekluze

Member

02-07-2012

I've had several matches where I was playing Alistar I just neutralized their bot point and tried to keep them from recapping it as long as possible. Against 1 person they are never going to get it from me, against 2 its trickier but doable for several cooldowns and if i manage to bring 3 down to kill me, well, that's a win and if we can't get windmill with that then we're not going to win anyway.

I don't really advocate ninja capping, but just flipping a turret neutral and holding out with a tanky champ 1v2 or 1v3 as long as you can will often buy your team lots of time and breathing room.


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jars

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Senior Member

02-07-2012

and then you get picked off in the jungle because no one good stands around at the windmill with 4 people visible.

backcapping mid is a ****ty strategy that only makes you lose games


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JamesLeBoss

Senior Member

02-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jars View Post
and then you get picked off in the jungle because no one good stands around at the windmill with 4 people visible.

backcapping mid is a ****ty strategy that only makes you lose games
They wont understand.

The people who encourage ninja capping play at an Elo range where botlane doesnt even exist =/


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maxusmaximus

Senior Member

02-07-2012

Ive never seen a game where bot doesnt exist but if you ever make a smurf you'll get a lot of games where wm doesnt exist. I cant say i've ever really lost a game where a ninja capper was on the enemy team. They make it annoying to play against for the first 5 minutes while your team adapts but ultimately you are making every teamfight 5v4, 4v3 etc. A good roaming ganker on the other hand is generally a great help as long as they are where they need to be. My experience of ninja cappers is that they grab our mid then dont tell anyone they are going enemy mid by which time they have engaged expecting help which never comes. Then the ninja capper starts calling out "noobs" in /all.


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AU Torma

Junior Member

02-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascleph View Post
Is ninja capping a valid strategy? Yes.
Is building around and focusing entirely on ninja capping the entire game a good idea? No, its a terrible idea.
Ninja capping is a way of taking pressure off a heavily defended point, like WM, so your team can take it, ninja capping is not a way of playing the entire game or all you are doing is turnning the top battle into a 4v3.
Yeah, the thing I hate about ninja capping is how it cripples the rest of the team. It usually results in a failed cap (often death of the "ninja") and more importantly, creates a 3 v 4 situation at the point your team truly wants to cap, often resulting in their failure and deaths (that not only comes at an opportunity cost of possibly gold they could have gotten by winning a team fight) but it also allows the enemy team to more easily defend their point and rewards them with gold from an unbalanced team fight. As others have said, it's a fine strategy but as a core strategy it's a very selfish one that usually has others pay for your decision.


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Commander Yordle

Senior Member

02-08-2012

These responses make me sad, as it's mainly by people who think there is only 1 viable strategy for Dominion. I'm guessing you all play 4 top 1 bot? So what happens when the enemy sends 1 to your mid and 4 bot, totaly ignoring the mad dash to Windmill? Your mid and bot both get taken, of course. Then you send help to those points, making it so the enemy team can converge on Windmill and take it.

You see there are many more strategies that work on Dominion. I find it rather unfair to be downvoted simply because I suggest this.


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Imwetoddid

Senior Member

02-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelBagel View Post
So what happens when the enemy sends 1 to your mid and 4 bot, totaly ignoring the mad dash to Windmill?
Take the windmill. Then, send one to their mid, one to their bot and three to our mid. If they try to retake their points, we retake ours. This is not ninja capping, it's just adapting to the situation. The difference is that we keep Windmill. That's what the meta is for.

Having four top and one bot is not a dedicated strategy, it's a meta. It's a very solid tactic and allows the team to adapt to any situation.

Ninja capping on the other hand is a weak attempt at scrounging for a few points. It requires a specific non-optimal build which makes you a burden in fights.


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Basoosh

Senior Member

02-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelBagel View Post
These responses make me sad, as it's mainly by people who think there is only 1 viable strategy for Dominion. I'm guessing you all play 4 top 1 bot? So what happens when the enemy sends 1 to your mid and 4 bot, totaly ignoring the mad dash to Windmill? Your mid and bot both get taken, of course. Then you send help to those points, making it so the enemy team can converge on Windmill and take it.

You see there are many more strategies that work on Dominion. I find it rather unfair to be downvoted simply because I suggest this.
You certainly don't deserve downvotes for suggesting something, but I think people are making good points against ninja-capping as a dedicated strategy. A good team does not sit in plain sight defending WM like robots allowing you to mosey on over and take their mid or bot without a fight. No, they roam the jungle, always near a speed shrine, waiting to react wherever they are needed. Watch the semi-finals of the most recent NESL for an amazing match and prime example of this (it's on Twitch.tv, NESL channel).

So what ends up happening is the dedicated ninja-capper is rarely, if ever, able to cap a point against these teams. And because the ninja-capper has some crazy move-speed-shenanigans-build, they are then useless in team fights as well.

Basically, you'll have moderate success starting out. As you climb the ladder and the level of competition and player map awareness goes up, the dedicated ninja-capper fades away to the point that it is a liability to the team, because it is completely countered by the roaming-jungle-response-team method of play. Back-capping is still a great short-term tactic in the right scenario (they have 4 people standing around in plain sight near WM). It just doesn't work as a dedicated strategy against decent players.


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Grantson

Senior Member

02-08-2012

There is a lot of resentment to ninja capping because more often then not, your teammates are the one that is at risk and dies while you're the one that safely runs away with speed or stealth.

Say there is a team fight for top it's 3 vs 4. While you ninja cap their side. Your team has a higher chance of losing the team fight. If your team still wins top it's fine and dandy. But if they lose they'll look at their 20 second death timer and blame you who is still alive.