What are Champions of "trash tier" in Dominion?

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LordJerichoSwain

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Senior Member

02-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draydan View Post
Well, its not just my opinion, how I already wrote. Its observations in 550+ games.
against players that dont know how to use those heroes or didn't pick them.


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Taenaryn

Senior Member

02-06-2012

TL,DR: In general, if you're looking for champs, look for CC, survivability/tankiness, and escape or mobility. Ranged often trumps melee because of poking ability, but not always, especially if the melee has a gap-closer such as Jarvan IV or Xin Zhao. You need to look at how the kit works together. Ryze, though very squishy, can become super tanky with items like Frozen Heart and Odyn's Veil, both naturally in his core build. He has sustain with his ult, hard CC, and that CC can often be enough to let him get away.

Also, bot lane is a whole different enchilada. Playing bot can win you a LOT of games if you learn to do it well. Generally, any champ you'd put solo mid or solo top in SR can make a good bot champ.

*******

Many champs that aren't actually bad require good teamwork to do well. For instance, Ashe-- she needs a tank to protect her, and 1v1 is generally very squishy. She can do extremely well, as long as she sticks around with a tank.

Basically, consider all of Dom to be one big SR jungle. Since in Solo Queue, you might not even get a good team COMP, let alone a good team, any champ that's strong in jungling can (generally) be considered strong in Dominion.

Second, because you can't rely on having your whole team there in a fight, a champ with escape mechanisms is also strong. Suppose you can 1v1 any other player in the game, you're still gonna find it harder when they come at you in twos or threes. Having tools to escape that fight makes you a stronger champ, since those kinds of odds happen frequently. Mobility can be a good, or even better substitute for escape. It means you can prevent caps, join teamfights to improve the odds for your team, and still usually escape from a gank.

Third, CC is very strong. Not only can you keep people on your turret taking turret hits, but you can take people off their turrets and kill them, and contribute more to a teamfight. And again, CC can frequently let you get away.

These three points combined is why there is a new "Rammus OP!" thread every week. He's a strong jungler, he can take damage, he can escape, and he can CC. Shaco is similar; hard CC, good escape, and can often do well 1v1.

Fiddlesticks is... a special case. He's a great jungler. He has hard CC. And his damage is also a good sustain ability, so 1v1 he often doesn't need an escape, because he can usually handle it. Problem is, one gank and he's dead, because he can't do anything while channelling his drain, his silence wears off fairly fast, so does the fear. So being exceptionally squishy, anything more than one enemy means he's probably dead. Fiddle can do great in teamfights. He can do great solo bot lane if he's properly wary of ganks. But in general, not the best soloQ champ.

So Warwick, I've seen do pretty well. Lifesteal is gimped on Dom, but he's good 1v1, and he has a CC in his ult. His chasing ability isn't really that good since chasing kills is usually a bad thing, and he can't escape if he gets ganked. He does terrific in teamfights, and if you build him tanky he can do pretty good solo. He's not a trash champ at all. Not the best, but not a trash champ.

Veigar is boss in teamfights. Having a 1:1 AP ratio nuke drop on 2-3 champs at once will ruin anyone's day, and his Event Horizon is an AOE stun. But by himself, he's super squishy, even with his stun, and he can't farm minions all day for his Q to get majorly powered up. Also, because of the Dom Armor Penetration aura, you tend to see more AD champs, which means his Ult is nerfed too. . Unless he's in a teamfight, he's generally pretty bad, and you can't guarantee teamfights in Dom.

Ashe does beastly damage. But 1v1, even her slow might not be enough to prevent the enemy getting to you. Doubly so if you get surprised. Her Ult can be good to prevent caps, but she also has no escape mechanism aside from that. If she has a team to back her, she can do terrific. Otherwise, she will most likely be in danger.

Nunu is very tanky, has lots of slow, does lots of damage... but his Q only works on minions, which are not in the jungle, and if he takes bot lane, he has no real AoE to push the lane. If 1/4 of your kit is practically useless, then there's very little point in playing him. He *can* do well, especially in a team that can make full use of his abilities... but there, again, is that Teamwork word that you can't guarantee is there in Dom.

Teemo can be very strong. Build him right, play him right, and he will absolutely WRECK the enemy team. He has a couple of build options available to him, he's squishy but can escape fairly well, he has perma-stealth to prevent being ganked, and his Blind, though a soft CC, is good both for him and for teamfights. His shrooms are good scouts and can do lots of damage in and of themselves with the right build. He can soloQ extremely well. A player who does not play him well will die hard, but a good player can wreck face.

Garen... I've never played as him, but I've played against him, and man he is annoying. Silence, spin, tanky, damage... hard to get him off that point, will die to ganks but so does everyone. Maybe someone else's mileage will vary, but I would say he's at least decent, not weak.

Shen: I have seen exactly one dominating Shen. All other Shens I've seen just can't cut the mustard. The Shen I saw built his defence right, Ulted into the right fights, Ulted away when he needed to escape, was always in your face, and he has an AoE taunt. But he doesn't really do much damage, has no real range, his escape is an Ult which isn't instant, and while tanky just doesn't seem to do well.

Champs I haven't seen much of include Rumble, Corki, and Trundle. I know Corki can put out lots of damage and has an escape in his Valkyrie, so I'm not sure why we don't see him more often. Trundle has no hard CC, little sustainability, can be tanky but his escape is only marginally better than Kog'Maw's. Rumble... I'll be honest, I know next to nothing about him, except that Heat isn't buffed by the Dominion aura.

Many of the supports that needed a team to win can soloQ and do well if built selfishly instead of to support the team; both because you don't need to rely on your team (which might not be that good) and because you get farmed automatically. Soraka can bot lane pretty well, Janna is fast, can shield, ult/knockback, heal, and put out some decent damage. AD Sona I hear can do every well too. Kayle can do lots and lots of damage, has decent range, and has great survivability in her ult and in her usually tanky build.


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Prometheius

Senior Member

02-06-2012

Karma. Terrible solo bot and requires on exceptional team work at top. If ever solo or even just duo, she's likely gonna die.


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hamai

Senior Member

02-06-2012

I've seen every champ work and fail. This kind of list holds no truth and makes Dominion annoying if you wanna pick a unusual champion like Nasus. You have to hear stuff. Last time I picked him a Caitlyn went on and on harassing me cause I picked him. I didn't say a word. Muted her. Coincidence or not I did well ending in 1st with nice numbers while she ended in last.


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ShawNuff

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02-06-2012

tristana is bad, warwick is playable


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HibbityJibbity

Member

02-06-2012

None of the champions that have been suggested are bad in Dominion. Not Veigar, not Shen, not Teemo, not Warwick, not Garen. Your observations are meaningless because you don't play with reasonably decent teammates.

Everybody making points in this thread about champions are speaking under the assumption that you have **** teammates. Well, I'm sorry, some champions need a reasonable team to shine, but when they do, they are fine if not better. How is that trash tier? Sounds more like your teammates are trash tier.

Shen and Veigar seemed to be mentioned the most, and the person I play Dom with for some reason picks those champs a lot so I have experience with them on my team. He likes to play a lot of **** champions and if he can't make them work I yell at him not to pick them, but Shen and Veigar are some of his better picks when it comes to uncommon champions.

I used to think Veigar was terrible but as it turns out, with a champion with 2 CCs standing in front of him he is devastating. I love Leona/Veigar. You can never catch Veigar because of how extraordinarily well she sticks to a target and keeps them still and you can never kill Leona because of her shield and Veigar melting everything. The rule of thumb we came up with on Veigar for him is to never stun offensively unless it's a guaranteed kill or unless I'm capable of holding off everyone. He does just fine when there's a champ that gives him the kiting he doesn't have. His Q not being able to scale as well is a slight nerf to him in Dominion but it doesn't destroy him for the same reasons that Nasus and Sion aren't Dominion failures. It's a nice thing to have and it's still nice in Dominion, just less nice.

Shen is a mid-tier pick. I wouldn't call him amazing, but he has everything that makes someone good in Dom. He gets to fights even when he's far away, he has a taunt and a dash, and he's a tank... but people with no map awareness should be banned from ever playing Shen, which is 90% of the people I've ever played with in LoL. Play Shen with someone while in Skype or Vent, get tons of free kills because you bait the enemy into 2v1/3v2 etc, and you will change your opinion on Shen. He is very good for a roam heavy team.

I should mention my friend played Shen all the ****ing time back in the day and actually knows how to play him. He sees all the fights and he does not miss an opportunity to turn a fight around with his ult (but doesn't waste it when the fight is lost anyway). I've never seen another good Shen either, so I can see why people t hink he sucks, but that just goes back to the point of trash tier players.

The main issues most people will have with most champs failing in Dom is that they either A) aren't coordinating with their team and the champ can't do anything because no one either sets up for their strength as a carry or nobody follows up their strength as an initiator, or B) their skills coordinate in an unforgiving way and that's something the average player can't handle.


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DivineBovine

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Senior Member

02-06-2012

Bad champs on dom....bad champs on dom.


Veigar Comes to mind but has niche areas, and shines when it is versus a AP team. However he is frail, and off of cds is about as useful as a stump.

Ashe, IMO, is not a trash champ. She has a built in slow, Map awareness, and a global ult. she does lack an escape when compared to some of the other AD Ranged Carries that come to mind, such as Ez and Vayne and Trist. But I do not consider her a trash champ.


Katarina, to me, if a bit of a trash champ in dominion. Any hard cc causes her ult to be canceled, her escape also happens to be her initate and can again be countered with well timed CC. She is an alright assassain, but lacks any sorts of CC compared to others.


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echoheadxx

Senior Member

02-06-2012

Anyone with a global ult is not trash tier in my opinion.


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SoSalty

Senior Member

02-06-2012

I can't believe OP thinks Warwick sucks. He's in fact very strong on Dominion. His kit looks deceptively bad from the outside, but you just have to play him to see why he's so good.

Eternal Thirst is not too noticeable. It's a little better if you get a Spirit Visage.

Hungering Strike allows for sustain (which is very rare on such an aggressive map like Dominion). You can stay up top as long as the enemy keeps pushing. Even if they harass you, you can heal up. Hungering Strike is also reliable damage when the enemy team starts stacking tanky items against your team.

Hunter's Calling is really good if your team scales well with attack speed. It also forces the enemy team to build Frozen Heart. Some of the team fights held for control of top are decided because of Hunter's Calling.

Blood Scent allows Warwick to be very mobile. If anyone gets low, that person won't be getting away as long as Warwick has a Frozen Mallet or unless Warwick is also low.

As always, Infinite Duress is a reliable ulti to have in a team fight. It's guaranteed suppression and it deals real good damage against tanky dps champions if you build a Kitae's Bloodrazor. It forces the enemy to deviate from their build and get a Quicksilver Sash. So, you are potentially forcing an enemy to spend up to 1440g+2775g = 4215g to counter you and your team.

So, Warwick is definitely not a bad champion on Dominion. He's my new go to champion as well.


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Ascleph

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02-06-2012

Honestly, the only trully "trash tier" champ, would be Shen, others got ways to work and the list in the OP is ridiculous just for having WW, thats prob why he gets downvotes.


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